New study into the effects of online on children .

[Tubetec]

A new study here in Ireland points to serious problems up ahead for our youth ,
A few schools here under the guidance of one of the universities have run tests on  manual dexterity and found that childrens abillity ,for instance to catch a ball is diminishing compared to previous generations. What their seeing is up to around the age of 10 years skills are improving ,but not at the expected rate , and after ten of age years progress in terms of manual dexterity  is actually not improving at all ,

I remember back to playing various sports or other things that required co-ordination ,  under normal circumstances we expect to see an improvement at least uptill the early 20's years old ,
I guess we all knew someone back in the day ,cack handed ,who couldnt throw a ball or a stone to save their life , looks like its no longer going to be the exception and more like the rule from here on in .  I'm getting increasingly ticked off with these appologists for  IT  , its becoming very  clear on many levels serious developmental damage is being done to a younger generation  , stuff that could have even more profoundly negative effects a generation or two down the line .

Clap handies for daddy ,till daddy comes home ....... :-\

 

[rackmonkey]

Without the specifics of the study, it’s hard to comment. Do you have a link to the primary publication or the name of the paper?

thanks

 

[JohnRoberts]

We probably need to understand the affect on adults too.... :

JR

 

[Tubetec]

It was a report I heard on the radio , Ive tried searching it but no luck .
At the end of the day its just another of many physical and psychological issues we know are arising from a sedentary lifestyle and too much screen time .

As far as the older generation of adults go , we grew up in a time a million miles away from where we are now ,  the mobile phone has become the equivalent of a pacifier for many children now , I see it all the time, a child in a public place starts getting upset and screaming and shouting,  the first thing the adult in charge does is put their phone in the childs hands , instantly the child is mesmerized and silenced , the adult gets a quiet life and the child swipes away at a screen with its thumbs until the novelty wears off .  Dangerous chemicals and drugs come with a government health warning , probably about time tech gadgetry did too .

 

[Tubetec]

Theres a link to the university that ran the study ,

https://www.dcu.ie/news/news/2020/Jan/Researchers-DCU-find-25-of-primary-school-age-children-cannot-run-properly.shtml

25% couldnt run properly
50% couldnt kick a ball properly
80% couldnt throw a ball

Shocking figures indeed.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Theres a link to the university that ran the study ,

https://www.dcu.ie/news/news/2020/Jan/Researchers-DCU-find-25-of-primary-school-age-children-cannot-run-properly.shtml

25% couldnt run properly
50% couldnt kick a ball properly
80% couldnt throw a ball

Shocking figures indeed.

Not exactly modern life skills while we evolved to be physically active. Kids are already getting type II diabetes, aka "adult onset" because only adults used to get it from chronic poor diet and lack of exercise.

We need some smart phone apps that get them moving...

JR 

 

[living sounds]

Studies have also shown, that sedentary behaviour of kids is caused by high body fat, not the other way round. We let food companies and advertising industries roam free for 50 years now, this is the logical outcome. Any attempts to tax unhealthy food are decried by so called Conservatives and economic liberals.

I bet the problem is much worse in countries with higher obesity rates.

In nature, sugar is very, very rare and high quality foods taste good. Today, sugar is everywhere and low quality foods are camouflaged as quality foods for our sensory systems (bad carbs get the unami treatment nature reserves for high protein foods).

If we had the political will to fight the food industry we could go a long way towards solving the problem of sick and sedentary kids.

Maybe the coming disruption in the food production industries (see the other thread) can be used to change course.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Studies have also shown, that sedentary behaviour of kids is caused by high body fat, not the other way round. We let food companies and advertising industries roam free for 50 years now, this is the logical outcome. Any attempts to tax unhealthy food are decried by so called Conservatives and economic liberals.

I am inclined to call BS on that while the food industry is far from innocent. It is how we humans are wired to eat more food when it is plentiful, to better survive times of scarcity. Being overweigh helped our ancient ancestors survive to pass those inclinations along to us. 

As more populations are raised out of poverty, the incidence of obesity increases in those same populations using their new found wealth to overeat.

I bet the problem is much worse in countries with higher obesity rates.

surely worse in wealthy countries

In nature, sugar is very, very rare and high quality foods taste good.

Indeed we are programmed to like "sweet" because fruits are the primary natural source of sweetness and are good sources of vitamin C and more. Eating more fruit had a positive impact on survival/reproduction so was reinforced by the evolutionary process.

Today, sugar is everywhere and low quality foods are camouflaged as quality foods for our sensory systems (bad carbs get the unami treatment nature reserves for high protein foods).

If we had the political will to fight the food industry we could go a long way towards solving the problem of sick and sedentary kids.

I have been overweight pretty much my entire adult life *** I take full personal responsibility for my previous overeating, and weight.

Maybe the coming disruption in the food production industries (see the other thread) can be used to change course.

I have long been optimistic about the possibility of better engineered empty "fake" food that could be used as a substitute for popular processed meals. The new fake meat (not new but newly popular due to better engineering), is marginally healthier but mostly trades in plant fat to replace animal fat.

As I shared I have been interested in this for most of my adult life and several decades ago I read a very informative book. "The psychology of eating & drinking" AW Logue (c. 1986).  There is far too much meat (food joke) in this book to capsulize in a brief post, but one very instructive study revealed that artificial sweeteners can fool the body in the short term but over time the body actually tracks the reduced energy content of faux food and eats more to compensate. There is a lot more, very interesting stuff in this book, for any one interested in this aspect of human psychology. 

I obviously do not see big government as the answer for every imagined problem. You probably would like Mike Bloomberg, he tried to use soda taxes and even regulated drink cup sizes while mayor of NYC in an attempt to use government regulation to mandate healthier eating/drinking. 

You couldn't pay me to eat processed foods, or drink sugary soda, but I do not want a government geek try to tell me what I can eat or drink.

JR

*** I am currently 50 pound lighter than my adult high, and it is a daily struggle to maintain a healthy weight, especially as I get older and lose even more muscle mass... My knee failed me (arthritis) several years ago forcing me to abandon jogging, that was a very effective way to neutralize roughly 100 kCal per mile.

 

[Tubetec]

I see the food industry is poised to make another killing by selling people the healthier vegetable based options at a hugely inflated price , its just another win win for them in the end . 

The other issue here is the diagnosis of these physical conditions associated with movement creates its own stigma which can be an end to any ambition in people,  also it creates huge black holes in the  public health  ,which is already way past broke by 101 psychological disorders and their associated pills and potions. I see people every day of the week coming out of the pharmacist with shopping bags full of prescription dope at the tax payers expense . Its been shown that if you give people free healthcare (except 2 euro's per prescription ,cover charge) ,they'll consume more dope and have more doctors visits (and illnesses)than someone who has to pay cash up front . 

 

[cyrano]

We need some smart phone apps that get them moving...

Like Pokemon?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Like Pokemon?

was that the one with virtual characters that everybody chased around looking for... if yes,  yes...

JR

 

[Tubetec]

There was a huge body count after Pokemon came out ,
people walking under buses ,off piers, over cliffs even  ;D

 

[Script]

Pokémon is still around I have learned. It gives a certain type of people incentive to leave the house...

 

[Script]

I assume it all depends. Kids these days learn how to tap and swipe on touchscreens from a very early age on. Back in my days we were thought how to hold a fricking fountain pen.

My kids watch a lot of TV, and they know how to play games on a smartphone. I even taught them how to switch and search for their favourite channels themselves.

The elder is proficient in three language -- I mean as proficient as it gets with a six-year old -- and to a large part also thanks to TV (natural vocabulary acquisition in context).

The daughter goes to dance classes and each time introduces the others there to the latest cool moves from the weirdest music videos. Also a lot to f explicit language in those, but thank God she has a Dad who can explain when and how to use those words correctly -- and when not to use.

Also, she learned how to ride the bicycle at age 3 3/4 the latest after seeing it on YouTube: 'Daddy, look, that's cool. I want to do that.'

Our two kids love be to fly kites and together with their various friends broke a couch in halves and a TV set as of late :-- and they did so in several languages

Once our kids decide they want to participate online for real, I will assist them to my best ability -- not least because I envy kids these days growing up with the coolest of technology at their hands. In comparison, my childhood was the dark ages...

And as for social media, which they don't use yet, I will show them how they work and what they are good for, if at all, and that competeing with peoples like POTUS is a futile endeavour right from the start

To my understanding, it really all depends... ...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Also, she learned how to ride the bicycle at age 3 3/4 the latest after seeing it on YouTube: 'Daddy, look, that's cool. I want to do that.'

I am reading a book about influence and persuasion (Cialdini). The psychology term for that is "social proof" and kids seeing other kids of similar age doing something, encourages them to believe that they can too.  Of course this cuts both ways which is why publicizing bad behavior can lead to more bad behavior. More crudely known as "monkey see monkey do".

[rant]  I rather dislike the way modern entertainment is full to overflowing with demonstrations of what they (hollyweird) consider woke behavior. Watching the first episode of a new TV series is almost humorous as they quickly check as many diversity boxes as possible in the shortest possible time.  This is not really a new concept, but there appears to be a changing of the guard regarding topics suitable for proselytizing, and amount of social change to pursue.  [/rant]

JR

 

[Tubetec]

A friend of mine was living in Japan for the last few years , wife and child along with him there.
In the end he bailed out due to the effect the educational system was having on his kid , the expectation was children remained silent  with their hands by their side until spoken too ,all the usual stuff you expect of children wasn't acceptable.
He once took his child to a planetarium , his son was so excited by what he saw he couldn't contain his emotions , they were taken aside by staff and told that unless his son put a lid on it they'd have to take him off the premesis, which they did .

I guess the system there has evolved as it has due to the population density , apparently the Japanese wont even take a phone call on public transport  in case someone else is offended. Along with  all these unwritten rules Japan has one of the biggest problems with how technology is effecting peoples ability to interact ,socialise and make friends .

We evolved I guess in small groups over the course of our history , we even evolved editorial systems to keep the show on the road , not always a good thing either but in modern media the door has been flung open to a situation where 'likes' and the getting of them is the primary concern , saying something that makes people uncomfortable , offended , causes them to question things or stand aside from the pack mentality has always been a risky strategy , but very necessary at times  .  You can even see this effect demonstrated now by politicians , the Canadian and New Zealand PM's do what I'd describe as 'verbal tippy toeing'  ,as people via social media are just lined up waiting to take offense on someone else's behalf  and jump on a band wagon ,  as if its a right not to feel offended by anyone anymore ;D   

 

[JohnRoberts]

A friend of mine was living in Japan for the last few years , wife and child along with him there.
In the end he bailed out due to the effect the educational system was having on his kid , the expectation was children remained silent  with their hands by their side until spoken too ,all the usual stuff you expect of children wasn't acceptable.
He once took his child to a planetarium , his son was so excited by what he saw he couldn't contain his emotions , they were taken aside by staff and told that unless his son put a lid on it they'd have to take him off the premesis, which they did .

I guess the system there has evolved as it has due to the population density , apparently the Japanese wont even take a phone call on public transport  in case someone else is offended. Along with  all these unwritten rules Japan has one of the biggest problems with how technology is effecting peoples ability to interact ,socialise and make friends .

We evolved I guess in small groups over the course of our history , we even evolved editorial systems to keep the show on the road , not always a good thing either but in modern media the door has been flung open to a situation where 'likes' and the getting of them is the primary concern , saying something that makes people uncomfortable , offended , causes them to question things or stand aside from the pack mentality has always been a risky strategy , but very necessary at times  .  You can even see this effect demonstrated now by politicians , the Canadian and New Zealand PM's do what I'd describe as 'verbal tippy toeing'  ,as people via social media are just lined up waiting to take offense on someone else's behalf  and jump on a band wagon ,  as if its a right not to feel offended by anyone anymore ;D 

Yes there are major cultural differences between Japanese or Chinese culture and western culture... One notable difference is that individualism is suppressed and group/team work is the norm.  The Japanese culture is not very diverse, Chinese more so but they have their own minority population issues (like Uighars).

All kids get socialized by the school system they attend... of course you should consider which culture you want you kids socialized into.  I am pretty apprehensive about the US school system, and have at least one friend who home schooled his kids.  He has zero regrets about doing that.

JR

 

[Script]

In the end he bailed out due to the effect the educational system was having on his kid

What kind of school? Public / private? Which city? There can be huge differences.

One notable difference is that individualism is suppressed and group/team work is the norm

Hmm, I'd say egocentrism is regarded as being arrogant and kids learn social group behaviour from early on, including taking responsibility also for others.

Apart from that imagine 150 people plus commuting in a metro train, all shouting into their phones. Dreadful 

Funnily enough Americans are a people who on average feel most discriminated against in Japan. It's not because of the past, but indeed a difference in culture. There's even a newspaper column on that. And while a few Americans feel deeply misunderstood, Europeans more often than not simply shrug shoulders...

 

[Tubetec]

Here in Ireland we always liked to think we had a great educational system but like most other systems we were thought to look down on a certain segment of society , a class divide was maintained and driven by the system .  I guess there's an element of the same everywhere , how you perceive it depends on which side of the tracks your looking from .

My buddy lived in a city of a few million on the north Island , he mentioned this word the Japanese use for 'foreigner' and even though his son is half Asian he felt he was always destined to be second row in that society.  Due to my dads work I moved school quite a lot, so I know how it is to be the outside man  , luckily for me I was outgoing enough to have established new friends quickly and avoided or fended off the attentions of the bullies with enough mental and physical force to show them it was never going to be a walk over ,yet never reverting to the 'us and them' mentality which only ever leads to further entrenchment.

 

[JohnRoberts]

What kind of school? Public / private? Which city? There can be huge differences.

I suspect Japanese education is generally more rigorous, with higher levels of attainment than the American system I am critical of.  I read the poster's  criticism of regimentation and subservience to teachers authority. That said US classrooms are chaotic to the point of failing (the few) children who actually want to learn, because of disrespect for teachers/authority. 

Hmm, I'd say egocentrism is regarded as being arrogant and kids learn social group behaviour from early on, including taking responsibility also for others.

yup... I have read about this from an engineering design perspective... Western design groups I have managed use a handful of engineers each working alone on different projects.  My sense of Japanese design was more of a group or team effort. Of course I have no first hand experience.  The Japanese culture is much older than ours with a more homogeneous populace. I suspect it evolved over time and works for them.

While I do have some personal experience with my ego... 

Apart from that imagine 150 people plus commuting in a metro train, all shouting into their phones. Dreadful 

Or people hired to work on train platforms pushing people to help them squeeze into already packed train cars. (Not sure why I shared that, but a cultural difference you wouldn't see here).

Funnily enough Americans are a people who on average feel most discriminated against in Japan. It's not because of the past, but indeed a difference in culture.

There is plenty of history there... I learned while spending time in Germany with the army in the early 1970s, there were huge generational differences between the attitude of elders toward Americans (unfavorable) and younger generations who were much more open minded. I would expect some similar differences in Japan too for similar reasons. I have never travelled to Japan, my brother who did (decades ago) shared anecdotes about difficulty he had from his height and he is only 6', not unusually tall by American standards.

There's even a newspaper column on that. And while a few Americans feel deeply misunderstood, Europeans more often than not simply shrug shoulders...

I have learned to drink in many languages, reportedly the Japanese like their beer (Kirin)  kampai (kanpai?)... I worked with one Japanese engineer for a while (from Matsusuhita) in the early 70s. He was amused by me and my car, that according him would never be street legal in Japan.  ;D

JR