Nichicon PW vs PM

[rob_gould]

First off, apologies for another 'The sound of this component vs the sound of that component' thread, but I really want some expert opinions on this.

I've read repeatedly on here that Nichicon PWs are favoured when electrolytics are used in the audio signal path, and people have reported that they sound great in the Night EQ which I'm building at the moment.

Unfortunately the Nichicons I ordered from Farnell are PMs :roll: - from what I read, an inferior model.

Is this something I should be concerned about? Should I wait and get some PWs because the improvements in sound quality will justify it, or should I just be quiet and get cracking with the DIYing because it's all subjective anyway?

All comments gratefully received :grin:



disclaimer: even though I know what the answer is likely to be, i can't stop myself asking this anyway. I really want this Night EQ to turn out as good as it can be

 

[Sorr]

I would build it with the ones you have, let it burn in for a few weeks and then try with the PW's.
After a suitable burn in, you can then decide which ones you prefer.
IMO the power supply caps are just as important and I tend to use Panasonic FC's for coupling and something else for the PSU.
But as you say it is subjective.

 

[audio2]

Personally i would go with Panasonic FM or FC. I think FM's beat PW's in every aspect. just glancing at the data sheets.

 

[Greg]

[quote author="audio2"]Personally i would go with Panasonic FM or FC. I think FM's beat PW's in every aspect. just glancing at the data sheets.[/quote]
I prefer PWs over FCs in my GSSLs... not because of data sheets, but because of tonal difference by blind listening tests.

My recommendation: Caps are very, very cheap. Buy, swap, listen. You choose. Long live DIY !

 

[CJ]

I would get the right caps.
You do not want to solder and resoldr a pc board, especially if it is a valuable piece of equipment.

(the older ones were like battle ships, the 1/8 th inch copper clad heath kit types.
i guess heath figured the solder jockeys would screw up a time or two, so best to have a strong board.

the stuff i have to fix nowdays is like tin foil. split in halh.

 

[rob_gould]

[quote author="CJ"]I would get the right caps.
You do not want to solder and resoldr a pc board, especially if it is a valuable piece of equipment.

(the older ones were like battle ships, the 1/8 th inch copper clad heath kit types.
i guess heath figured the solder jockeys would screw up a time or two, so best to have a strong board.

the stuff i have to fix nowdays is like tin foil. split in halh.[/quote]

Good advice here i think - measure twice, cut once and all that.

Unfortunately this kind of knowledge comes from experience, and I agree with you Greg, it'd be good to try a few different types and make up my own mind. I just don't want to make a mess of a night eq board.

Perhaps I could use single SIL sockets to be able to make swapping the caps easier by just plugging and unplugging them...

 

[Sorr]

Some years ago I recaped an Amek Matchless master module with FC's.
It had more detail and dynamics, but was hard sounding.
About a year later I got it back to replace the faders, it sounded so much better after a years burn in, I was somewhat gobsmacked.
I then changed just the PSU caps to KZ's
The PW's might sound better than the FC's, I havent tried them, but make sure you really burn them in before you choose.

 

[CJ]

You can gently pull on the cap to stretch as much lead out of the can as possible without breaking the board, then snip the leads close to the cap, solder two wires with an alligator clip on the other ends and I bet you can guess the rest.

Then desolder the test wires and put in the cap you like.

wow, is that mike bloomfield with glasses and zits, looks like leave it toi beaver , at the monterey pop rollin and tumblin?

no wonder he got lost in the smack.


hendrix just copied jerry lee, just figured that out, you know, he burning piano?

hugh montenegro is groovy.

.

 

[franklinh]

For break in I'd use pink noise at a nominal level for 48 hrs straight, into a load. I replaced the capacitors in some ADM mic amps and most definitely heard a difference with before and after break in.

I also replaced caps in 4 channels of my console one time, 2 with the FC and 2 with the PW. FWIW with zero break in time the differences are audible, now that it's been in situ for a while things have averaged out.

If the piece in question is stereo, why not do each side with different caps and pick which one you enjoy the most, then you only have half the work left. OR just mix it up, break it in and be done. Every component has a signature, and whether you consider it a flaw or a feature depends on you. If you mix it up you can avoid multiplying the effects of one brand of component, maybe get the best of both.

Have fun!

 

[Ptownkid]

[quote author="franklinh"]I also replaced caps in 4 channels of my console one time, 2 with the FC and 2 with the PW. FWIW with zero break in time the differences are audible, now that it's been in situ for a while things have averaged out.[/quote]

which did you prefer when the difference was audible?

 

[franklinh]

which did you prefer when the difference was audible?

For the application in question I preferred the FC and did the rest of my mixer with them. Some say they sound "scooped" but my interpretation was that the midrange was the same for both and the modules with the FC caps in them had a tiny bit more "air".

It's worth mentioning that both sounded better to my ears than the stock caps - lower noise, generally better signal integrity. A bit like shooting fish in a barrel when you're replacing 30+ year old electrolytic caps. FWIW I've tried other general use caps and actually ended up worse off sound wise.

The modules have been shuffled around quite a bit since then and I haven't really had the motivation to try and pick them out in a lineup. Given the sample to sample variation one might find in gear that old I tend to doubt the validity of my own observations, and certainly the cumulative effect of decent new capacitors "across the board" dwarfed the differences between brands. As always YMMV.