Not happy even with a lavry a/d.

Help Support GroupDIY:

Matt Nolan

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2015
Bath, England, UK
Abbey, you might just be making the hidden point I was heading towards. Nobody can hear jitter problems or distortion in any half decently designed modern converter.

Aliasing was a genuine problem, with older converters and poorly implemented ones. It shouldn't be with proper oversampling and digital filter design.

So what is the fraction of a dB amplitude difference that the best human ears can hear in a frequency response? I expect it has some sort of curve like the Fletcher-Munson thing.


Well-known member
Jan 15, 2015
Null tests for digital audio gear are a waste of time.
If we are talking about a sine wave AD conversion through different converters, of course we will see a difference between any two subjects.
There will be phase, frequency and group delay differences, even if we record through the same converters on different days under different environmental conditions.
But lets say you fire up an Apogee, Mytek and a Lynx converter. Record the same thing through each, diff the files and look at the difference.
What did you just measure?
Phase deviation?
Brownian motion?
Frequency response deviation?
What you will have left over will likely be inaudible, and unless you zoom in, invisible.

A similar experiment would be to mount a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera like a Fujifilm XT3 on a solid tripod.
Take 2 pictures in a row of the same thing.
Diff those two pictures. Super easy to do in Photoshop by loading both pictures on layers and setting the top one to 'difference' compositing.
Guess what, even in RAW, you will see a difference due to thermal noise and other environmental factors.

I use nulling all the time when setting up multiple mics on guitar amps or drums. Great way to verify phase coherence of two sources. But not to objectively compare two pieces of gear.


Active member
Nov 14, 2010
I trully don't believe that at all.
If there's something that is not nice is vintage digital.

Digital converters improved a lot of the years and most converters nowadays are quite good and miles better than anything released before 2000 for sure
Someone told me about RADAR a couple months ago and the trip down the rabbit hole was an adventure. The RADAR was originally distributed by Otari as a replacement to tape machines. The company went through a lot of trouble to make a durable, well built, and easy to use machine. The nice things about these units is that they are calibrated to give you headroom, so 0dB on the vu meter is around -14dB or so in the digital domains. The converters are some of the best out there, including the originals. Even Eddie Krammer was impressed when he used one due to the tape machine at the studio needing a tech. Obviously the RADAR II converters were even better and every generation that followed with 24 bit and now as high as 192K.

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