Op-Amps and Sockets: A Few Questions

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meblumen

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Messages
18
I was organizing my workroom and came across a collection of opamps but can't seem to find any spare sockets. I have some NE5532's I'm going to use in a project but don't know what sockets to use. I checked out digikey and a few other suppliers but I can't make heads or tales of what to get.

I'm also going to upgrade a friend's ts-9. I have an RC4559, which I was wondering if that would work otherwise I'll either order a 4558 or pop in a TL072. What socket do I need for those op-amps?
 
Try to stay away from sockets with springcontacts. They loose their contactpressure with ageing and can develope bad and hard to find contactresistances. Precision sockets are the ones to go for, machined pin, as Brian said
 
I go against what others say and say get the cheap sockets. gold won't matter here either since the limiting factor will be the oxides on the legs of the IC and the contact area. the legs of your ICs are flat, stamped pieces, so using turned pin sockets and square legs only gives you 4 small contact points since you are sticking a square pin into a round hole. the cheapie sockets place pressure on two full sides instead giving you a better surface contact area however marginal.

sockets are not immune to the audiophool rules which deem that cost and quality are related. this may be generally true but in this case it is just not necessary to buy the expensive parts.

:guinness:
 
I would add that the issue is how often you're going to be changing out IC's. The machined sockets are the way to go if you are doing a lot of this; and beyond that if you are, say, screening a bunch of stuff, then the zero-insertion-force pricey and complex stuff may even be called for.

The other consideration, less likely an issue in audio, is that the sockets add parasitic coupling and other stray capacitances, and a bit of inductance per pin. When you are doing video stuff this can be unacceptable. If using a PCB you can get the individual machined pins to solder into the board, and this is usually o.k.
 
I dislike sockets, get good with your solder skills.

Sockets suck in guitar effects if the person is going to use them live the opamp WILL fall out or have contact noise problems from vibration.

There were ICs that would tarish when used in a gold machine socket because of the plating. The fix was to remove and clean the legs of the IC. good old galvonic action.

You need to look at machine sockets before use because sometimes the pressure wiping insert part is not inside the socket pin this can be fun to find.

I have worked with a lot of sockets over the years and I don't like any of them.

The machine ones are good fun when they go thur temp changes from hot to cold the IC starts to move out of the socket over time. Think guitar effect trunk to play to trunk........ winter and summer.

The cheap one or two use plastic ones don't seem to have this problem as much

I don't like sockets.
 
[quote author="Gus"]I dislike sockets, get good with your solder skills.

Sockets suck in guitar effects if the person is going to use them live the opamp WILL fall out or have contact noise problems from vibration.

There were ICs that would tarish when used in a gold machine socket because of the plating. The fix was to remove and clean the legs of the IC. good old galvonic action.

You need to look at machine sockets before use because sometimes the pressure wiping insert part is not inside the socket pin this can be fun to find.

I have worked with a lot of sockets over the years and I don't like any of them.

The machine ones are good fun when they go thur temp changes from hot to cold the IC starts to move out of the socket over time. Think guitar effect trunk to play to trunk........ winter and summer.

The cheap one or two use plastic ones don't seem to have this problem as much

I don't like sockets.[/quote]

I'm with you on this.

My father always expected ICs to fail so used sockets---perhaps a prejudice based on using tubes for many years. Occasionally they did, but I wonder how many more failures were due to the sockets.
 
Did anybody here see Nixon on Laugh In when he did the "Socket to me" thing? Dating myself I guess.

Tradeoffs:

solder = heat , voltage
sockets = relibility issues

impedance, frequency, cmos, enviroment, whatever.

don't use a chip bender, load it springy.
 
Thanks for all the input. I need to clarify a few things though. First off, I'm a total idiot...I mean electronics have never been a strong suit so I'm still somewhat of a newbie. Looking at the digikey ordering form, for each of the above mentioned Opamps, how many pins do I need, what is the significance behind the different materials used, ie. is gold the best or would you use tin for x application but not y etc? ALso do things like pin length and width matter for the opamps I'll be dealing with? What is open-frame vs. closed frame and same with solder tail vs. wire wrap? Sorry for all the dumb questions but these are the things I have the most trouble with. I can find the theory in the books and online sourcing parts has always been a real pain. Anyway thanks for all the help.
 
I wondered if everybody was answering the wrong questions.

> how many pins do I need

The common dual-opamps are 8-pin DIP packages, so you need an 8-DIP socket.

> solder tail vs. wire wrap

Wire-wrap has LOONG pins. You use a wrap-tool or machine to connect insulated wires, without stripping or soldering, by wrapping the wire so tight the corners of the pins bite through the insulation. Standard pin length allows three wires to be wrapped on one pin. This makes total sense in LOGIC circuits, which have few or no non-chip components, a LOT of interconnections in a small space, and all wires are driven with powerful outputs that overwhelm crosstalk. In analog work, all these good ideas become bad ideas.

You want SOLDER-TAIL. The legs are just long enough to get through a PCB and clench the bottom.

Gold, tin, open, closed..... buy by price and what you are doing.

If you know what you are doing and do not expect to change chips, don't use a socket! Solder heat will not fry a chip. Sockets are prone to failure, as others have said.

For a project where I only thought I knew what I was doing, and might change chips, I use the cheap tin low-profile solder-tails. About $0.19. Examine them before use: 99.9% of the contacts will be good, but Murphy's Law says if you don't check, you will get a bad contact.

If I was building for posterity, with possible new/improved chips every decade, I might use gold screw-machine sockets. They are more sturdy and pretty. Then again, I might use the cheap tin sockets.

If I was sorting hundreds of chips in a test rig, I might get a ZIF socket. Pin-type CPUs often use these: flip a lever and the chip drops in, flip the lever and the pins are clamped. If you remember seating 386 CPUs with both thumbs and a lot of mobo creaking, or even a 40-pin 286, you know why you need this for many-pin chips. Insertion wears the standard force-fit sockets, so 10 or 100 insertions and the socket gets flaky. Zero Insertion Force makes it possible to put in a 400-pin chip, or makes it possible to insert a hundred chips in the same socket without the fingers (yours or the socket's) getting worn out.

> upgrade a friend's ts-9. I have an RC4559, which I was wondering if that would work otherwise I'll either order a 4558 or pop in a TL072.

I dunno "ts-9", but I find it hard to think a 4558 is an upgrade for anything. And I like the 4558.

4559 is an improved 4559; whether the improvements make any difference depends on the use.

TL072 is a very different way to get about the same thing as a 4558, faster and cheaper. Better for some things, worse for others.
 
Unless something changed TS-9s already have 4558s in them, the upgrade is to spend $10 to get an original JRC4558, because guitarist have to find fault somewhere with the new TS-9 so their original TS-9s can retain a good (rediculous) resale value. There is a difference in sound between brands, but in the TS-9 it is not all that noticable, the distortion hides the differences in most cases. It has been a long time since I have fiddled with the insides of one of these, but there might not even be room to add a socket. I seem to recall that these were pretty tightly packed.

adam
 
O.k so I finally got some sockets but have a few questions. 2 of the op-amps I have are labeled SOP and don't have pins that will even come close to fitting in the sockets. One of the opamps, a TL072 is very small. Also the sockets I got, part # AE7208-ND seem a tad big. I can barely fit one into a tubescreamer without it touching the other components, did I order the wrong thing?

adamasd, on the new reissue ts-9's some have the 4558 opamp and some don't. You don't necessarily have to use the JRC4558 which you can get for about $40 from smallbearelectronics, some people claim there is a difference in sound others don't, I don't know but I want to experiment with a bunch of different opamps to see which one I like the best, or if it really matters at all. Thanks again for all the help.
 
Those "SOP" opamps are surface-mounting devices, not through-hole mounting DIPs (dual-inline packages). They won't go into 8-DIP sockets. You could get a gadget that you can solder the SOP chips onto which would then plug into a DIP socket, but my guess is you'd spend more money on that (and more aggravation) than on a couple of new opamps. TL072s are cheap and readily available in an 8-DIP.

Peace,
Paul
 
Hello all, first post here.

I was brought to this thread by the comments on the 4558 chips. I have a Yamaha MC1604 mixer that I am going to do some work on and was looking to see if there was something more popular(i.e. better sounding) than the 4558.

The mixer has modules of 4 channels each. It seems to have 2 channels sharing some parts including the 4558's. There are 8 of them on the whole board, 4 per 2 channels. Printed on the IC is "4558DV JRC 4937".

See the pictures here: http://fucanay.fischerworks.com/pictures/mc1604/

I am also planning on recapping this board, at least a these four channels, to see if I like how it sounds. Currently, some channels don't work and other make some cracling noises.

Any tips or suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks

fucanay
 
Since nobody has jumped in yet I will try to offer a few suggestions. Please note, I am in no means an expert on any of this, not that you should 100% trust anything anyone says on the net without doing some research of your own. Anyway, if you can remove the existing 4558 chips and install some 8 pin sockets that way you can audition some different ICs to determine if anything makes a difference and if so what you like the best.

I don't know which version of the 4558 you have (JCR or TI version) but supposidly there are subtle differences. There are also 4559s which are supposed to be similiar. I A/Bed them against some 4558s in my tubescreamer and ended up keeping the 4559s. I'm pretty sure you could pop in some TL072s, NE5532s, or some burr brown OPA2604 or even some OP275s. All of the above are simply alternatives, I don't know which if any will sound better. I bet there are a bunch of other choices you could also use. Good luck and try google and the search function here. Its time consuming to weed through all the available information but you can really learn alot.
 
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