Potentially useful EDA for OS X

[Andy Peters]

For various reasons I prefer OS X to Windows. We all know that there's a lack of usable electronics-design (schematic and PCB layout) software for the Mac. There's EAGLE, there's gEDA (which is broken), there's McCAD (which hasn't been updated in a decade), there's KiCAD. (Diptrace doesn't count, it runs under WINE.)

I gave up on gEDA when it became clear that the developers were hostile to the Mac (the usual anti-Steve Jobs rants). KiCAD also has developer issues, and there was a show-stopper bug in the schematic package eeschema which basically made it impossible to draw nets between component pins.

The latest build from some guy in Italy has been building KiCAD for OS X for some time and his latest build seems to be reasonably stable on 10.7.5. (A couple of WxWidgets warning dialogs get thrown.)

Anyways, the point is that if you use a Mac and hate EAGLE (and really, who doesn't?), this might be something to try. I've started planning my libraries and will do up a little two-channel digitally-controlled preamp/ADC board to put it through its paces.

-a

 

[riggler]

Thanks for this!

 

[Andy Peters]

So a handful of months later, I'm making actual progress. The 21 December 2012 build of Kicad on OS X is actually pretty stable on 10.8.2. There are still a couple of instances where a WxWidgets warning box comes up (easily dismissed and ignored), and in a couple of places the footprint edited blew up. (Memo to self: save often.)

Rather than do up a preamp/ADC board, I scratched an itch and designed a digitally-controlled studio monitor controller. It was an excuse to learn the Silicon Labs ARM processors and an SPI-interfaced 128x64 graphic LCD from Electronic Assembly. So I got sidetracked while I turned the SiLabs eval board and the display into a simple oscilloscope and then into a multichannel bar-graph meter.

So back to Kicad. Obviously libraries are very important, and I spent a lot of time working out how to organize mine. A lot of the community-supplied footprints are problematic (silkscreen in pads? WTF?) so I edited what was good and created new parts as necessary.

The schematic is finished and all of the parts imported into the layout tool and then ... ENCLOSURE! This is the part I hate.

I thought one of the slope-front Hammond boxes would be perfect, but the rear panel drops perpendicular to the bottom so instead of a 90-degree angle from the top it's 80 degrees. And that makes it impossible to use board-mount connectors that stick out the back if the PCBA is suspended from the top panel instead of bolted to the bottom.

I guess it'll have to be two PCBAs, one for the user interface (display, buttons, encoder) hanging from the top and another for the analog and power supply and connectors bolted to the bottom.

Does anyone have a suggestion for an off-the-shelf enclosure that would work for a monitor controller? Basically a desktop box where all of the user interface stuff is on the top with connectors sticking out the back.

-a

 

[warpie]

Hi Peter,

I'm not sure if these will do?
I've never used them myself.

 

[Andy Peters]

Hi PeterAndy,

I'm not sure if these will do?
I've never used them myself.

Ah, interesting! I'll check that out.

Checked out ... $175 apiece. Pfffft.

-a

 

[Andy Peters]

these look pretty neat, but I can't figure out if they have US distribution.

 

[zayance]

This also maybe? If you click on the part number you get prices.


http://www.tekoenclosures.com/

 

[bias]

Andy,

KiCAD is getting much better. I also have the latest build running on the latest version of OS X and it's been great. The work flow is a little different and there is a bit of a learning curve, but for what it is, it's fantastic, IMO.

Although, I will say that some things need improvement, badly. Most of the improve needs to be done in the module editor. The fact that you can't directly enter coordinates, absolute or differential, into the module editor is beyond frustrating. Also, to my knowledge, you can't create two pins on the same connector that share the pin on the schematic. So for example, I'm using a Phoenix Contact connector that has N pins and, for structural reasons, has two pins for every terminal. You have to create a part with 2N the amount of pins and then a module with 2N the amount of pins. It's very frustrating....

It should also be noted that KiCAD is available for both Windows and Linux. The more people that use it, the more powerful it becomes.

I generally don't use modules or parts from online repositories. The time I spend verifying that they are correct, I could have gone and made on myself. However I wouldn't be outside making a repository of parts/modules for commonly used here.

 

[pjotr]

I use Designworks from Capilano for schematic capture and Osmond PCB for board layout, I have for about 6 years now.  They are both real old, vintage MacOS9 but they have been updated to universal binary and I use them on Lion, so not Rosetta. 

Designworks isn't cheap, but it will output part and net lists for Osmond so I don't have to think so hard on larger designs, and there are *ways* to go back and forth.  Osmond you can use free up to a hundred or so pads in your design.  Designworks has a bit of a learning curve to get good at, but you can do EVERYTHING. 

Osmond is by far the most enjoyable PCB layout program I have used, but it too has its quirks.  You'll end up making most of your own part footprints, as its libraries aren't that great.  Some folks have published a few random libraries for it.

 

[keefaz]

The fact that you can't directly enter coordinates, absolute or differential, into the module editor is beyond frustrating.

For the pads position, it is possible to enter coordinates (just right click on the pad and edit properties).

 

[bias]

The fact that you can't directly enter coordinates, absolute or differential, into the module editor is beyond frustrating.

For the pads position, it is possible to enter coordinates (just right click on the pad and edit properties).

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know this. It would still be nice to be able to enter coordinates when placing the pad though, perhaps by pressing tab to bring up a box or something.

 

[Andy Peters]

Although, I will say that some things need improvement, badly. Most of the improve needs to be done in the module editor.

Oh, yeah. I don't think it can even do copy-and-paste.
And it would be useful if there was a way to let you include a mechanical layer as part of the module. Consider something common: a connector which pokes through a panel. On the layout itself there are provisions for a mechanical layer, so you can draw your enclosure outline around the PCB. If your module had a mechanical layer, it could include a line or whatever which indicates the "back of the metal." Lining up the connector to the inside of the enclosure would then be pretty simple.

-a

 

[bias]

Although, I will say that some things need improvement, badly. Most of the improve needs to be done in the module editor.

Oh, yeah. I don't think it can even do copy-and-paste.
And it would be useful if there was a way to let you include a mechanical layer as part of the module. Consider something common: a connector which pokes through a panel. On the layout itself there are provisions for a mechanical layer, so you can draw your enclosure outline around the PCB. If your module had a mechanical layer, it could include a line or whatever which indicates the "back of the metal." Lining up the connector to the inside of the enclosure would then be pretty simple.

-a

I'm pretty sure there is some form of 'duplication' right now. It might not be as easy as Macro-C and Macro-V, but you can pseudo copying and pasting.

 

[Andy Peters]

Update: Newer Kicad builds here.

NOTE: I think the newest builds (starting in September) use the "new" format for the PCB files and the libraries. I haven't tried them yet.

-a

 

[pucho812]

have you ever considered a windows platform EDA and running an emulator? More options there plus all you really wait on is waiting for the emulator to load which is pretty fast

 

[Andy Peters]

have you ever considered a windows platform EDA and running an emulator? More options there plus all you really wait on is waiting for the emulator to load which is pretty fast

Yes, I have, and for a long time I used Ultiboard in a WinXP VM.

I suppose I could spring for PADS or Altium (we use the latter at the day job) and run them in a VM if I could justify the cost, but for doing side projects, I can't. Altium is $$$$$.

So surveying the field of inexpensive PCB tools, you have only a few options. EAGLE (which I hate), gEDA (which sucks), Kicad (which so far so good), and a couple others. That Kicad and EAGLE are available on OS X is a plus for those packages..

-a

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Hey Andy.

Any update on your Kicad / OSX experiences?

I've done some messing around in Eagle in the past but I'm about to make a serious time investment to learn one of the affordable PCB layout packages for an upcoming project.  I'm happy to pick up a PC if that's what I need to do.

I've been researching Tina (which I use for simulation), Eagle and Kicad.

 

[walter]

My day job has me developing parts in Cadence Allegro. A bit of a learning curve, but so far so good. This is just a background project to keep me busy when not soldering 0201 components. As a rework tech. I can say the Allegro board viewer is a lifesaver for finding components. It reminds me of when I started using Fabmaster for repairing cisco server boards. I wish I had a similar program for consumer audio equipment, Hours spent navigating my mom's radioshack stereo circuit board, I know how to fix it, but can't find the right trace. I admit that I haven't done any board design other than pen and paper for eyelet hand wired tube equipment.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Thanks Walter, I'll look into Cadence.

Ideally I'd like to use a program with a decent user base, I could use the support as I learn.  I'm not afraid to spend $500 or $600 and pick up a PC if necessary.

 

[Andy Peters]

Thanks Walter, I'll look into Cadence.

You're gonna need a bigger wallet.

-a