pro tools, pin 3 hot dsubs and 1/4

[pucho812]

Thinking aloud and wondering what the genius people around here would say.  Wondering how important this is. At a studio  that is wired pin 3 hot. Pro tools interfaces are pin 2 hot.  they interface pro tools with dsub to 1/4 on a b-gauge patchbay. I know it's a bad idea using the 1/4 connections on the b-gauge but not my studio and have already expressed why that is a daft idea.  Anyway, Being a balanced connection, if I track and mix  at that studio it seems to me that it would all be o.k. because even though the tracks are recorded out of phase when played back at that studio from pro tools the phase flips on the output back into the console and it's all o.k. s But what about moving to another studio all tracks from pro tools, all tracks will be out of phase. Being all out of phase together is it that important? More over all mixes done at that studio will be out of phase with both channels(left and right) being out of phase. How import is it all if both sides of the stereo field is out of phase?

Is it worth it to make all the dsubs pin 3 hot?

 

[QUEEF BAG]

if yer not one of those guys who freak out over absolute polarity, you will be ok.

pin three hot?  protools? if it's digi hardware with XLR - that would mean 888 s.
that would ef me up way more than polarity.

the real issue might be patching into some unbalanced outboard, or possibly some
xformer gear.

if it was me, i wouldn't bother if it's just one session. take a few phase reverse cables in case...

if i wuz to address the issue 
i wouldn't  ef  up the dsubs, i'd fix pin 3

 

[Meathands]

I followed this discussion of absolute polarity pretty closely: http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?p=634305&sid=c35b5a140967f0fa202a60b400e98da0

The conclusion I came to was that, yeah, sometimes it does matter so you might as well get it right.

 

[pucho812]

well the studio is pin 3 hot and rewiring the entire studio is not an option. the studio uses pro tools hd and 2" studer.  I never worry about  polarity unless it's audible.  But does it really matter if everything is that way? Obviously on unbalanced connection it's an issue. But is it an issue if the tracks on the multitracks are all out of phase, it shouldn't matter at the studio but if I move else where, I see it being a potential problem.

 

[Meathands]

The verdict from some educated minds in the thread I linked to was that on some sources, such as a kick drum, the absolute polarity is audible. That is, there is a physical and audible difference between a drum head pushing out and compressing air and pulling back and expanding air. That's what got me thinking that absolute polarity should be maintained whenever possible.

 

[pucho812]

agreed. 

 

[njm]

If all the signals are out of phase, can't you just invert the phase on final mix?

 

[pucho812]

If all the signals are out of phase, can't you just invert the phase on final mix?

I think would be the easiest solution.

 

[William]

It will be fine imo.  The phase relationship between each of the tracks is more important than the total phase - so if the bass drum mic is out of phase with the over head mics then you have a problem.

If your worried you can always just audiosuite all the tracks with an eq that has the phase flipped.

Or flip the phase of the master buss.

 

[tomelectro]

I don't understand - If you're going from D-Sub to 1/4" patch bay, where's the problem?  Pin 2 or Pin 3 hot only applies to XLR connectors, not D-subs or 1/4".  So long as the 1/4" tip is connected to the hot connection of the D-sub, you're fine, unless there's an XLR connection somewhere else down the line.  And even then you're fine unless you have a pin 3 xlr mating with a pin 2 xlr.  If the studio's wired consistently, that shouldn't happen.

EXCEPT: If you're tracking, most microphones are pin-2 hot, so you'll probably have an absolute phase problem from the get go if you are going into a pin-3 mic panel.  That problem will be there no matter whether you mix at a pin-3 hot or pin-2 hot facility.

 

[pucho812]

good point it is b-gauge and yeah tip would be going to hot regardless.  Also good point in the fact the entire studio is consistent so there should not be a big deal.