RCA BC-6B Console Project

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tablebeast

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
145
Location
Forest City, NC, USA
OK, so it looks like I am getting my hands on the remains of an RCA BC-6B console. It is a bit of a basket case and there are a lot of missing pieces so I am thinking I will mod and rework this guy to my modern DAW needs rather than trying to restore it. Basically what I have is the console case itself, the controls and wiring from the front panel, and the mic pre chassis with input transformers. I was told even though they aren't attached to the face, all the pots are there. There are no program amps, power amps, or power supply. There are no tubes either.

I don't have the BC-6B Manual but I do have one for the older mono BC-3C. I was told the pres are exactly the same circuits, so I am referencing those. I'd like to get my hands on the real BC-6B Manual if anyone out there has a PDF or can point me to one, I'd be eternally grateful.

So, my main concern first of all is a power supply. Then I have to consider tubes. They all take 12AY7's, two per card. So I need almost two dozen of the suckers. I have 11 preamp cards in all and I was thinking that I would utilize them like this:

8 of the 11 preamp cards I will set up as individual mic pre amps going direct out to my sound card. My sound card has a DSP mixer so all the mixing will actually be done in there and in the computer.

For mixdown I will feed the outputs of my sound card back into a passive mix bus that would feed 2 of the remaining 3 preamp cards. These will feed a two track recorder the final 2-tk mix.

From there I would like to incorporate the monitoring and switching available on the console for additional functionality, but I will get to that after I have figured out all this other stuff first.

The 11th remaining Preamp Card and Transformer I will probably strip for parts and trade for stuff I need on this project. I was told the input transformers are Peerless, though they look like UTC's to me. If anyone is interested PM me.

So, here are the preamps I have:

9 of these Mic Pre circuits:

rcaba501.jpg


and 2 of these Line Amp Circuits

rcaba502.jpg


Any thoughts on these pres? I can't find a lot of info about them other than what is in this BC-3C manual. It says they have 46dB of gain. It looks like it would be easy to tweak this design for more gain than that (if I need it).

If I were going to mod these pre amp circuits what occurs to me is: First off I'd remove the extra 1.0uF cap and both 220K resistors from the outputs. Then I'd wire the 1.0 cap directly to a 1/4" output jack. Then I'd yank the .0047 cap at C4 and replace it with a .047. I'd like to have DI capability on at least one channel so I was thinking I could strap a 220K resistor from the first grid to ground and install a 1/4" input jack connected through a 10k resistor to the grid. I'd also like to set up a switch to change the load impedance. It has 37 ohm, 150 ohm, and 600 ohm settings on the input transformer. I'd like easy access to all three settings. Lastly I was thinking it would be neat to have adjustable control of the negative feedback to V1A's cathode.

As for the line amp cards (bottom schematic) I would do the same thing as the mic pres only I'd also remove the 3300 ohm resistor on the output.

For a power supply I just bought this thing and it may be perfect, an Oregon Tube Regulated Power Supply:

oregon101.jpg


oregon102.jpg


Let me know what you guys think as I don't know much about Oregon, though their stuff does look badass.

Lastly here are some pics of the console:

rcabc6b01.jpg


rcabc6b02.jpg


rcabc6b03.jpg


rcabc6b04.jpg


rcabc6b05.jpg


Any and all info is appreciated.
 
According to the BC-6B manual, the preamp circuit is indeed the same as the schematic you posted.

Bumping up the value of C4 may not gain you much (if anything) since it's working into a very high-impedance load. The input impedance of the cathode follower is larger than R9+R10. Google "bootstrapping" if you'd like to know why.

The output coupling cap is worth bumping up in value, however, since your A/D input impedance is probably on the order of 10K-20K.

If adding a grid resistor to V1a for DI use, you can (and should) go higher than 220K. 1M is probably about right.
 
According to the BC-6B manual, the preamp circuit is indeed the same as the schematic you posted.

I don't suppose this is a digital copy of the manual you're looking at that you can share?

Bumping up the value of C4 may not gain you much (if anything) since it's working into a very high-impedance load. The input impedance of the cathode follower is larger than R9+R10. Google "bootstrapping" if you'd like to know why.

The manual said these circuits were good for 60hz-15khz. I figured this cap was part of that low end roll off. I will look up bootstrapping to see what you mean. I'm not trying to second guess the original design, I'm just interested in opening up the frequency response a little.

The output coupling cap is worth bumping up in value, however, since your A/D input impedance is probably on the order of 10K-20K.

How much bigger, like 2.2? 4.7?
If adding a grid resistor to V1a for DI use, you can (and should) go higher than 220K. 1M is probably about right.

OK, cool. 1M it is. What will this do to the circuit? A better question is why is there no grid resistor in there to begin with?
 
[quote author="tablebeast"]
The manual said these circuits were good for 60hz-15khz. [/quote]

Where do you get this? Only thing I see is 30-15kHz for program, which is the preamp into the booster amp into the progam amp. 3 amps in series plus all that mixing bus loss. So expect better from the preamp by itself with a suitable output load impedance.
 
Where do you get this? Only thing I see is 30-15kHz for program, which is the preamp into the booster amp into the progam amp. 3 amps in series plus all that mixing bus loss.
Yeah, you're right it is 30hz-15khz I went back and checked. I must have seen that 60hz elsewhere recently and swapped the stats in my mind. Plus I hadn't considered that figure is end to end. With just the preamp and a transformer only on the input this thing should have a very broad spectrum response, correct?
So expect better from the preamp by itself with a suitable output load impedance.
And a suitable output load impedance would be a modern sound card inputs? Should I keep the 220K load resister on the output? Replace it with something different?
 
The basic amplifier module will be -3dB near 5Hz and 50KHz. Note the NFB around first two stages has a rise below ~~30Hz, compensating some of the cumulative loss in other parts.

The 0.5uFd output cap driving modern 22K inputs will be -3dB at 15Hz. It was surely intended to drive several 100K pots (Pgm, Aud, Cue). Also to give NO DC on those pots.

It claims 30CPS (not Hz) to 15KC because you HAD to show 50-15K to the FCC, and old engineers liked bass so you threw them a half-octave extra. Top-octave response with older US trannies is always a sloppy thing, so they didn't care to promise past what the FCC required to be tested.

"Oregon" was probably two guys in a garage trying to emulate H-P with a less innovative but useful specialty product.
 
So the monitor amps, program amps, and PSU are all gone?

Yes, sadly, the guy that had it before the guy I got it from tore the console apart to restore it and lost these other items amongst all his mountains of stuff, so its still out there apparently in some crazy old guy's garage, but I'm not holding out much hope that it will find its way to me. I can't really afford to hunt down all this original stuff myself so I'm going to do what I can with what I have. Of course IF I did get the original missing stuff back they would be welcome to the party. For now though I'm looking at this like an old car that needs too many expensive parts to restore, so instead I will Hot Rod! I just got some 7uf 250V Film Caps for the output. I figure that's big enough. Still looking for 12AY7/6072's though.

Transformers are UTC. Same input on BA-21A. Peerless....BAAAH!

Bah was pretty much my response. I was just double checking. Any idea what model number these UTC's are?
 
[quote author="burdij"]EH 6072as on the Bay at $10 each should get you started.[/quote]

Yeah, I may try some of the EH stuff and it's good to know its out there but I'd prefer finding some original GE or RCA 1950's vintage 12AY7/6072 tubes.
 
I think I have some GE and RCA NOS 12AY7s but they will probably be a bit more than $10. I think if you used those in the first position and the EHs everywhere else, you might get the maximum effect for the minimum investment. I have been using the EHs in mike heads but I do select from a group for lower noise. I might also have some Daven attens, a few of those big knobs, and possibly some handle knobs for those low cap switches too. I will check.
 
[quote author="tablebeast"]
Transformers are UTC. Same input on BA-21A. Peerless....BAAAH!

Bah was pretty much my response. I was just double checking. Any idea what model number these UTC's are?[/quote]

Custom RCA part #. Printed right on them. Your info must all be on the other side against the frame.
 
Just wanted to resurrect this thread,

I just picked up a BC-6B with all the modules intact. The only thing missing are all the Davens and the VUs and Knobs.
I only spent a couple hundred bucks on it but wondering if the Transformers are good? I thought they are all UTC and nice quality?
What do you mean by "Bah" and Perless  Emrr??

What should I do with this thing? Is it really worth restoring?
I am thinking just gut out the transformers and switches for preamps or other tube gear.

Chuck
 
These transformers seem like they might be pretty good?

Inputs x9  UTC M-8366  150/600:50k    (1  CON3+4  6) = 600 ohms

Output x2  UTC N-6743  ??30k?? : 600/150  (9  CON7+8  6) = 600 ohms  Push-Pull with FB

Output x2  UTC M-8363    ??????    No idea



Anyone out there with a manual?
Or anymore supporting data?

Thanks,
Chuck



 
Do you know of a link? I've searched everywhere. All I can come up with is the 3C but I guess the amps are all the same.
I was thinking this might be better as a simpler 9 channel pre amps to summing mixer with direct outs on each pre. This would be better for use with a larger console and Digital studio don't you think? There are a lot of options and modes on this that are not useful these days, as I am not a broadcasting station.

I was also thinking of swapping out the Preamps for a RED47 circuit.

Do you know what the other set of Output transformers are?


Chuck

 
Chuck  I think the DW Fern mic pre is modeled after this mic pre.  Fern uses some Jensen transformers but the design is very similar.  You should get 1 working and take a listen.  Emrr might know how these pres sound. 
 
ChuckD said:
Ian

I never got your PM. Can you send me a link again?

Thanks

Chuck

No, I don't have a link but I do have a pdf of the manual. It is 70Mbytes big so I don't know if I can email it direct to you. Alternatively I could make it available via yousendit.com

Cheers

ian
 

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