RFZ V781 / AU 35 Output Transformer

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smilan

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
465
Hi,
I have a RFZ V781 and tow AU35 output transformers.
There are four wires on each side of the transformer.
What is the right wiring for making a balanced output?
Those are the DC resistance measurements between the different wires:
BROWN > GREEN 4.5Ω
BROWN > YELLOW 2.8Ω
BROWN > WHITE 6.4Ω
GREEN > YELLOW 7.1Ω
YELLOW > WHITE 8.8Ω

GRAY > BLACK NC
GRAY > RED 4.3Ω
GRAY > PURPLE 4.7Ω
 

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Don´t use your multimeter because dc-voltage magnetizes the transformer core...

I´ve only the datas for 1AÜ35/1:

White is the beginning of the primary winding and yellow the end of the primary winding.

Black is the connection to the core and should be grounded with the screen of the symmetrical cable of the secondary connection.

Red is the beginning of the secondary winding and purple the ending of the secondary.

All windings are nested.

If you are interested in a cool adapter for plug-and-play connection of V781, V741 and W734 send me a message.

Best regards!

jokeramik

www.audiomodellierer.de
www.rfzderddr.de
 
I´ve only the datas for 1AÜ35/1:

White is the beginning of the primary winding and yellow the end of the primary winding.

Black is the connection to the core and should be grounded with the screen of the symmetrical cable of the secondary connection.

Red is the beginning of the secondary winding and purple the ending of the secondary.

All windings are nested.

If you are interested in a cool adapter for plug-and-play connection of V781, V741 and W734 send me a message.

Best regards!

jokeramik

www.audiomodellierer.de
www.rfzderddr.de
Thanks, I've ended up wiring the transformers like this:
Primary:
white -> signal from V781
yellow -> ground

Secondary:
red -> plus
blue -> minus
black-> shield of cable (pin 1 of XLR connector)


Every thing working great :)
 
This is incorrect except in a very few specific cases. There is an entire thread about it here: DC measurement is magnetizing core ?
When you think, do this. Happy magnetizing!:)))

I don´t check transformers with my multimeter.

DC magnetizes the core so the transformers miked. STUDER established a procedure to demagnetize the magnetized transformers. :)))

That´s why a lot of manufacturers use caps for blocking dc on an input amplifier.

Best regards!

jokeramik
 
Yes, Studer mic input transformers are one of the exceptions. And if you read the thread I linked to, it does mention demagnetizing susceptible transformers.

For larger transformers, and output transformers in general, this is not an issue.
 
Hello groupdiyguy,

there is no problem. These transformers have been manufactured according to the original specifications. With an analyzer, I even measure a significant improvement in the degree of distortion with using the transformers. The V781 can drive my transformers without a problem.

Caution! All units from the RFZ for specified max. level of +12dB -> 3,1Volt. The normal reference level in german broadcasting is 1,55 Volt -> +6dB. 0dB is specified as 0,775 Volt.

The output impedance of a V781 is between 3 Ohms and 15 Ohms (depends on the frequency).

The V 781 uses the same push-pull unit like the V 740.

Maybe your V 781 is not in the best condition? Maybe I can help you?

Which version of the V 781do you use?

You can also do without the transformers and operate the adapter asymmetrically. Can be programmed with solder bridges.

Best regards!
jokeramik
 
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It is in top working condition, both channels equally. Sounds great unbal with no transformer, strong and clean Mine is the original first early version with BC109 input and other BC series intermediate, and SF127 outputs, no opamps. Maybe that is why later ones they changed to opamps like AY version etc for more drive
OK.
The output power don´t depends on the version of the second OPA-Stage in the V781. Every version have the same technical specs. All my V781 (different versions: all BC 109, complete with transistors Made in GDR or with IC in the second amplifier stage) works great with my adapter. Also other musicians are using these adapters without problems. So i think the problem is most likely neither from the transformer nor from the V781.

I´m using these transformers also for restauration of V 740 (input- and outputtransformers available), MV 810, MV 810/2, MR 811, PR 812 and so on. There is also an Adapter available for W734 in the same manner with additional output possibilities.

How did you adjust the several discrete OPA-stages?

Tell me some measurements You can start a conversation if you like. Where are you located?

With unbalanced connection there is no floating signal.

Best regards!

jokeramik
 
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Have you carried out recapping and a new adjustment according to the device documentation?
Best regards!
jokeramik
 
Actually never mind guys, the V781 cannot drive output transformers directly, I just tried the AU35 and a lundahl output (also wired 1:1 like the AU35) and using either output trans drops the V781 output signal a great deal compared to the no trans unbal out, and it distorts quite easy as well. The V781 just cant drive them. If you want bal out have to find another way like using a line amp or active fader or something. They must not have fed V781 straight into trans when these were part of consoles, must have been some active boost stage in between.

To JOKERAMIK in one of your adapters you are using some modern transformers, wondering what they are and what the loss are, as I dont think V781 could drive them either unless your boards have a stage between to drive them.
My 781's work perfectly with output transformers too. I have experienced problems with hooking them up to AU35's actually, despite them being the matching transformer..

I would suggest you grab a W745 stereo fader and chain it after the 781 / before the OP transformer, I think the fader was the last module in the chain before an output anyway.. These faders sound great
 
Hi guys, thanks for the replies. Just last night I was looking at it all in more detail and found that the guy I bought it from who wired the connector and cables got a couple wires backwards so I corrected it and will test it again tonight with AU35, that must be the problem, will report back then. One question for jokeramik: I noticed the V781 has a choke output after the cap, but the MV810 with same sf127 output stage does not have the choke, just the cap. Since I will be using AU35 (hoping that it works now) is the choke needed anymore, what is it's purpose, and if using a trans instead it might not be needed and sound better even, how about that. Thanks
 
Ok, now it is working fine with the AU35 after I fixed the sellers output cable wiring was missing a pin connection so I only was getting half the signal, Thanks for the help and sorry for jumping the gun without checking for a most basic cause first.

Only question now I have for Jokeramik besides my last question about if the V781 output choke would be better left in or taken out now that am using AU35, is how to best terminate the secondary of the Au35. Usually a 600 ohm is used, or a zobel network. But I saw in a different RFZ schematic they used a 300 ohm resistor across output trans. I put the usual 600 ohm and it sounded much better than unterminated, as before there was too much thin high end. Sounds much better terminated, evened out the highs. Maybe 300 ohm would be better correct RFZ way?
 
Ok, now it is working fine with the AU35 after I fixed the sellers output cable wiring was missing a pin connection so I only was getting half the signal, Thanks for the help and sorry for jumping the gun without checking for a most basic cause first.

Only question now I have for Jokeramik besides my last question about if the V781 output choke would be better left in or taken out now that am using AU35, is how to best terminate the secondary of the Au35. Usually a 600 ohm is used, or a zobel network. But I saw in a different RFZ schematic they used a 300 ohm resistor across output trans. I put the usual 600 ohm and it sounded much better than unterminated, as before there was too much thin high end. Sounds much better terminated, evened out the highs. Maybe 300 ohm would be better correct RFZ way?
Hello groupdiyguy,

no problem:)). All OK.:))
Have a nice time with your V781:))) with AÜ 35 !!!
I´m happy that your V781 is ok!!:))

This choke prevents RF interference from entering. This was very important in these years.

The MV 810 is a complete different design. It was made by VEB Funkwerk Kölleda for the L-800-System and not by the RFZ (Rundfunk- und Fernsehtechnisches Zentralamt der DDR). This System was used for installing public adress tasks like in schools, factory, hotels, clubs, ships and so on.

Also the VEB Deutsche Schallplatten (Eterna, Amiga and so on) used these preamps for recording before they developed "VK 290" and "Mischeinrichtung 82" in the 80s.

There are two versions of this preamp:

1. MV 810: This a complete germanium transistor design in class-a single ended technology. There is a special feature to accomplish the required frequency response: a parallel resonant circuit because the transistors in these days have a low transit-frequency. Reference-level on output is 1 Volt.

2. MV 810/2: This a complete new design based on silicon semiconductors. The output class-a-push-pull stage is complete adjustable in the workingpoints. Reference-level on output ist 1 Volt.

Both versions use the same in- and outputtransformers.

The advantage to the V781, V741 and so on is, that all units from Kölleda are balanced at in- and output. So you don´t need a choke at the output like the V781. The outputtransformer blocks all high-frequency energy. And so you have a real floating connection.

The output is usually designed in such a way that you can connect a lot of devices (some say 10).

With load you change their electrical characteristics. If it sound good in this special case then it is ok. You can´t damage anything.

The outputcaps ar important, because we have only a unipolar powersupply.

Some times the elektrolyticcaps are on their lifeend. If they aren´t change please change this. I saw some example with manufacturing date 1977 or earlier.

If you want to know more, send me an email or an PM.:))

Sorry for my english, but I´m not a native english speaker.

Best regards!

jokeramik
 
My 781's work perfectly with output transformers too. I have experienced problems with hooking them up to AU35's actually, despite them being the matching transformer..

I would suggest you grab a W745 stereo fader and chain it after the 781 / before the OP transformer, I think the fader was the last module in the chain before an output anyway.. These faders sound great
The last chain before outside the OB car or in other applications was a V742 isolation amplifier. This amp avoids repercussions on the upstream devices.

Best regards!
jokeramik
 
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