Rules for 20 dB pads ?

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andre tchmil

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On a lot of preamp schematics , I see a 20dB pad wit 619R and 169R resistors.
Is this a basic rule ?.

Can I use 680R and 150R ? and what will be the attenuation ?
 
Talking about pads, note the stuff from Selfs site
(http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/balanced/balanced.htm):

6: It is often convenient to use a balanced microphone preamp as a line input by using a suitable balanced attenuator, typically 20 to 30 dB. The input impedance of the mic input stage will be 1 to 2K for appropriate mic loading, and this constrains the resistor values possible. Keeping the overall input impedance to at least 10K means that the divider impedance must be fairly high, with a lot of Johnson noise, so the total noise performance balanced is almost always inferior to a dedicated line input amplifier. CMRR is determined by the attenuator tolerances and will probably be much inferior to the basic mic amp, which usually relies on inherent differential action rather than component matching. Fig 14a shows a bad way to do it; the differential signal is attenuated, but not the common-mode, so CMRR is degraded even if the resistors are accurate. Fig 14b attenuates differential and common-mode signals by the same amount, so CMRR is preserved, or at any rate no worse than resistor tolerances make it.

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/balanced/balfig14.gif

Note that for the circuit of Fig 14b there might be additional required measures when using phantom-power.

Bye,

Peter
 
Not that I want an exact 20dB attenuation.
My question was more if I could use these values instead of the standard ones.
I just had them at hand .
 
I guess you'll get a few more dB attenuation - but it also depends on the other impedances (before & after the pad).

Sounds close enough, but let's see what others will say.

BTW, I realized I didn't answer your question in the posting above - just added an additional issue :wink:

Peter
 
Well to get exact 20 db, you'll have to take into account what may lie around the pad being constructed. But for the values you give here are some numbers:

Assuming the config is the 3 resistor approach (from the posted 14a figure), the eq would be : (Rin is the series value and Rs the resistor tied across the legs)

20*log(Rs/(2Rin+Rs))

Where Rin = 619 & Rs = 169, pad = -18.4 dB

Where Rin = 680 & Rs = 150, pad = -20.05 dB

If circuit 14B is used then just half the value of Rs for the lower resistor in the divider (84.5 and 75 respectively)

Circuit 14a is most like OK to use even though is does not pad CM signals becasue by the time you are using a pad the signal is large enough that the loss of noise rejection may not be a problem, but that is not necesarily always the case.....

Brian
 
thanks again for the good info here.
So I will use my values here.
I was just a bit suspicious here about the 150 R resistor.
Just thought that the value of Rs was related to the value of Rin.
 
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