Soliloqueen's k87(k67) and k47 capsules

[MaxxDM]

i made a few m7s tuned like an average of where I've seen early fr graphs just out of curiosity to see how they would sound while testing the tolerances for the m7. I didn't match this specific graph exactly. I might do that next time. anyone want one?
red=k47v
View attachment 146497

i thought i could get away with going out to 5 micron, and i was wrong. the sound is spot on to what I was going for but does not necessarily represent the final tuning of the capsule at all. they are a mess in terms of side to side matching. Only 2 out of 5 are good enough for multi pattern lol with the same voltage on both sides. Perfect FR matching independent of sensitivity side to side tho, so our hole tolerances are good. Will back down to 2.

we've also gone one strange outlier that does more closely match the quoted post on side A:
View attachment 146514

Woah! that's great.

IMO, the boost at 2-3 KHz is, generally speaking, more useful, when it comes to recording lead instruments and vocals.

Also, the dip at 5-6KHz is useful, so that by boosting the top end, when mixing, you get more air and less sibilance.

 

[MaxxDM]

i thought i could get away with going out to 5 micron, and i was wrong. the sound is spot on to what I was going for but does not necessarily represent the final tuning of the capsule at all. they are a mess in terms of side to side matching. Only 2 out of 5 are good enough for multi pattern lol with the same voltage on both sides. Perfect FR matching independent of sensitivity side to side tho, so our hole tolerances are good. Will back down to 2.

What's the difference in sound?

 

[untamedfrontier]

Just wanted to follow up now that I've had my k87 capsule for a little while, and it's absolutely tremendous. It's so good it forced me to re-record almost all of the lead vocals I had finished on my newest project. I think now all of my songs on this album now have either the Flat47 or K87 on them for the lead vocals.

Really tremendously grateful to have these in my arsenal.

 

[micolas]

Just wanted to follow up now that I've had my k87 capsule for a little while, and it's absolutely tremendous. It's so good it forced me to re-record almost all of the lead vocals I had finished on my newest project. I think now all of my songs on this album now have either the Flat47 or K87 on them for the lead vocals.

Really tremendously grateful to have these in my arsenal.

Hi @untamedfrontier ,
Could you post some samples with K87 and K47f ?

 

[untamedfrontier]

Once I release the album, I'll share links to those and with what mic was used, but I did a video here which breaks them down:

 

[Buttercup1]

i made a few m7s tuned like an average of where I've seen early fr graphs just out of curiosity to see how they would sound while testing the tolerances for the m7. I didn't match this specific graph exactly. I might do that next time. anyone want one?
red=k47v
View attachment 146497

i thought i could get away with going out to 5 micron, and i was wrong. the sound is spot on to what I was going for but does not necessarily represent the final tuning of the capsule at all. they are a mess in terms of side to side matching. Only 2 out of 5 are good enough for multi pattern lol with the same voltage on both sides. Perfect FR matching independent of sensitivity side to side tho, so our hole tolerances are good. Will back down to 2.

we've also gone one strange outlier that does more closely match the quoted post on side A:
View attachment 146514

Very exciting! I'm working on U47 bodies at the mo but have nothing to test with so I'd be very grateful for anything even if it only works in Cardioid.

 

[micolas]

IMO, the boost at 2-3 KHz is, generally speaking, more useful, when it comes to recording lead instruments and vocals.

Personally I have always reduced
a bit the 2-3kHz range, on voices or instruments, seemed too aggressive, screaming.
The majority of the general public, the final consumer, prefers a "smile" type equalization.

Maybe that's why most good microphones are rather neutral in this area.

 

[micolas]

Once I release the album, I'll share links to those and with what mic was used, but I did a video here which breaks them down:

Hey, good job!
Wow! Arienne capsules sound best.
ORS87 with K47f did you build it without deemphasis on treble?
We thank you!

 

[micolas]

Hey @untamedfrontier ,
Have you thought of putting the Arienne K87 capsule in the WarmAudio WA-87 R2, instead of the stock one (3UAudio)?
The circuit is modeled after the U87i, with a polarization voltage of about 46v, the jFET is 2N3819 Fairchild NOS, the transformer is Cinemag 13113, the other components are quality, and the Arienne K87 is modeled after the vintage K67, it should sound great!

 

[soliloqueen]

Woah! that's great.

IMO, the boost at 2-3 KHz is, generally speaking, more useful, when it comes to recording lead instruments and vocals.

Also, the dip at 5-6KHz is useful, so that by boosting the top end, when mixing, you get more air and less sibilance.

Personally I'm not a big fan of them like this, I just wanted to see if I could match other charts I'd seen

 

[untamedfrontier]

Hey, good job!
Wow! Arienne capsules sound best.
ORS87 with K47f did you build it without deemphasis on treble?
We thank you!

ORS87 with K47f used 220n cap for Bass (C5 on homero v1.1 board), 100p for treble (C6). Both Ari capsules used J113.

 

[untamedfrontier]

Hey @untamedfrontier ,
Have you thought of putting the Arienne K87 capsule in the WarmAudio WA-87 R2, instead of the stock one (3UAudio)?
The circuit is modeled after the U87i, with a polarization voltage of about 46v, the jFET is 2N3819 Fairchild NOS, the transformer is Cinemag 13113, the other components are quality, and the Arienne K87 is modeled after the vintage K67, it should sound great!

I might end up selling or trading the Warm Audio, it sounds nice, but I prefer it much less than the 2 ari mics. I'm sure popping in the Ari K87 would be fantastic, though. I'd have to spring for a non b-stock if i were to do so though.

 

[micolas]

ORS87 with K47f used 220n cap for Bass (C5 on homero v1.1 board), 100p for treble (C6). Both Ari capsules used J113.

Thanks so much for all the info! They are very useful!
Unbelievable how well the little Neutrik NTE10/3 transformer is doing!

 

[micolas]

I might end up selling or trading the Warm Audio, it sounds nice, but I prefer it much less than the 2 ari mics. I'm sure popping in the Ari K87 would be fantastic, though. I'd have to spring for a non b-stock if i were to do so though.

I was very curious because I also have a new WA-87 R2, the K87 capsules have been on the way for almost 2 months, I can't wait to receive them. I will do the test myself.
By the way, is the capsule in the test K87 B-stock?

 

[micolas]

ORS87 with K47f used 220n cap for Bass (C5 on homero v1.1 board), 100p for treble (C6). Both Ari capsules used J113.

In the test, the ORS87 with the K47f capsule seems to ask for a little more "air". Have you tried with smaller C6, 47...68pF, or even remove it from the NFB circuit? This capsule prefers a flat circuit, without Deemphasis.
In the picture there is a significant difference between the treble of the K87 and K47f capsules.

 

[untamedfrontier]

I was very curious because I also have a new WA-87 R2, the K87 capsules have been on the way for almost 2 months, I can't wait to receive them. I will do the test myself.
By the way, is the capsule in the test K87 B-stock?

Yes, both Ari capsules in test are b-stock, since ORS87 is cardioid only

In the test, the ORS87 with the K47f capsule seems to ask for a little more "air". Have you tried with smaller C6, 47...68pF, or even remove it from the NFB circuit? This capsule prefers a flat circuit, without Deemphasis.
In the picture there is a significant difference between the treble of the K87 and K47f capsules.

I haven't made any adjustments to this point. I do have them socketed, so i could try a smaller value on K47f, that's a good idea. I've got a 10p, 15p, 33p, and 56p C0G in the parts bin, I just had avoided opening up the mic since the 47 style body is a little more annoying to tweak compared to the 87 body, but perhaps it's time to set science back a few years and test some things out.

I initially tried having C6 removed entirely, but I had poor results and almost no output. I think probably the resistor has to go as well, but I don't have enough knowledge or experience to know if that's true or not.

If there are any recommended other circuits to try with the Flat47, i'm all ears. Would be fun to hear some others with such a great sounding capsule.

 

[micolas]

If there are any recommended other circuits to try with the Flat47, i'm all ears. Would be fun to hear some others with such a great sounding capsule.

Absolutely any flat circuit works fine.
Even a simple Shoeps, (a jFET , 2 BJT, no transformer, plus a dc/dc for voltage polarization of the capsule), very cheap, sounds very good, clean. Hear the real sound of the capsule.

 

[MaxxDM]

Personally I have always reduced
a bit the 2-3kHz range, on voices or instruments, seemed too aggressive, screaming.
The majority of the general public, the final consumer, prefers a "smile" type equalization.

Maybe that's why most good microphones are rather neutral in this area.

Yeah, I guess it's a matter of taste. I do the opposite, for the sake of intelligibility of diction. However I would not like it on a female pop/dance vocal.

Presence EQ, is traditionally from 1K to 4K, and it's more old fashioned I guess.

Today's music tends to sound more mellow and full than music made when the mics were new.

If you listen to early Beatles records, like I Want To Hold Your Hand, you can hear the midrange peak around 2-3 KHz

Is that Eq? Their eq was in the form of bass and treble on the console, external boxes plugged in-line, like HPF on the mic side, and the brilliance EQ which was 2.7KHz (a very popular presence frequency at the time), 3.5Khz and 10KHz. It was placed between the output buss of the console and the tape machine

So, it depends how 'loud' you want the recorded source to sound, and how 'vintage', I guess

 

[soliloqueen]

i think we're going to run a sale on single sided k87s. i need these factory plates gone, so starting some time like next week we're just going to sell single sided k87 capsules at $99 until we run out. we also made enough to fulfill all the current normal k87 orders times 2 on top of that to provide buffer volume during the transition

 

[soliloqueen]

Agreed as well

I haven’t installed the first K47V I bought and am tempted to buy another once the in-house metal is ready, just because you seem so much more excited by those

Would love to get your honest sense on whether the in-house metal iteration will be substantially better than the first run

I'd like to say no, but probably. I've implemented a few changes other than the monumental increase in metal quality. Otherwise, the factory metal was inconsistent, and though I did heavy QC on the resulting units, it's still more variable than the in house metal would be. The answer is...possibly? If you somehow got a mediocre unit before, which is unlikely as I hand-rejected all of those, the in house version will likely be considerably better. If you got a good unit, there wouldn't be any difference. It would be kind of weird if there was a huge difference on something I designed where I have final say on QC, especially with a single backplate design, which are easier to sweep test. The K87 is more complicated. There are potentially issues with the factory K87 metal related to pattern and chamber behavior that wouldn't show up on any standard QC tests, so I would say it's more likely that you might get a mediocre K87 than a mediocre K47. That being said, none of the capsules are really "bad." I would say don't worry about it unless something really sounds weird in the mids or treble of your factory metal capsule, and if it does, just RMA it for one of the in-house ones.