space echo motor issue.

[Rob Flinn]

Hello I have a RE301 on the bench which had some motor issues. I rebuilt the motor with new bearings, changed the felts & idler bearing. It all works quite well now & when I turn the unit off, the motor continues spinning for 4 or 5 seconds, so I think the motor is working well.

The problem that I have is that is I switch the unit on after leaving it off for for a while it needs a helping hand to get it turning. Does anybody know if recapping the motor control board helps this issue ? I was thinking it may need a bit of kick to get it going like with motor start caps in washing machines.

 

[Bo Deadly]

Does it have a hall effect sensor? Maybe you disturbed the position of the sensor?

What is required to get it started? If you turn it slowly a little is that enough?

 

[Rob Flinn]

Does it have a hall effect sensor? Maybe you disturbed the position of the sensor?

What is required to get it started? If you turn it slowly a little is that enough?

I don't know if it has a hall effect sensor. It literally just needs a bit of a nudge on the pinch wheel.

 

[emrr]

Motor run cap like an air conditioner? I haven’t looked.

 

[Tubetec]

Hi Rob ,
As far as I know the motor in a Space echo is DC , its also variable speed to adjust delay times .
Have a look at the motor commutator and maybe try giving it a clean , between the slots maybe use a bamboo toothpic and on the copper parts Id suggest one of those nail polishing files with 4-5 different grits , start on the finest and rotate the com agaisnt it avoiding creating flat spots , theres no need to remove metal , you just want rid of the carbon deposits . The other thing to remember here is your creating at least some metal particles , its best to blow the com and coils off with compressed air once your finished . Another method I have often used to clean up coms is an ink/pencil erasers grey end , this will clean the com and any metal particles you create will be bound up in the little bits of rubber and are easily swept away afterwards . Ocassionally if the com is badly pitted more aggressive action is required , its easy to wind up either damaging the com or contaminating it with metal particles to the point it no longer functions , only take the cleaning as far as is needed . While your in there check the condition of the motor brushes for wear .

 

[Bo Deadly]

I don't know if it has a hall effect sensor. It literally just needs a bit of a nudge on the pinch wheel.

I think those motors are brushless. Here's a pic of the stator from EchoFix's rebuild guide:


The rotor is attached to a bell flywheel with permanent magnet. So there is no commutator. The coils are driven by hall effect sensors which are the little upside down T shaped PCBs in the pic above. If it just needs a nudge, then it sounds like either one of the hall effect sensors is bad, out of position or some part of the circuit reading the sensor and driving the coil is bad. If there are three coils and two sensors, then I think there might also be a motor run capacitor which could be bad but not as likely as the hall sensor if it just needs a nudge.

If I were trying to diagnose this, I would use a scope to look at the output of the motor sensors and surrounding circuitry driving the coils. I'm not really into motors but if you have a scope and post a schem with pics of the waveforms at various test points, there are probably people here that can figure out what the problem is. Or you could just open it up again and just replace, reposition the hall effect sensors but you'll probably need more circlips if they didn't give you extra.

 

[industrialarts]

I have worked on a bunch of those. Are you sure that the pinch roller pressure is not too high? I have seen many units with the tension cranked up, which is one of the reasons the bearings go. Usually if the Hall sensors are bad the motor doesn't turn or doesn't run smoothly but it's a possibility, I guess. The caps in the motor supply are old, so it wouldn't hurt to replace them but again, I would suspect the motor to run rough if they were bad. The Hall sensors came with the rebuild kit, yes? I haven't actually replaced that many but they do go bad.

Also, did you clean the pinch roller shaft and bearing? I have seen them gummed up to the point that the roller wouldn't even turn.

In any event Shane at Echo Fix is the man! He was very gracious with his help and time the first time I struggled thru a bearing replacement. Maybe drop him a line if you can't sort it out

 

[Rob Flinn]

Thanks for the info. I didn't buy any parts from echo fix because they are really expensive by the time they are shipped to the U.K. I sourced the bearings, felt & machine oil etc locally. The bearings are just generic sizes & easily sourced. I bought them from simplybearings.co.uk . All the parts came to about £20 u.k I did service the pinch roller bearing so it's not gummed up. I think I will probably recap the motor controller board first since thais the easiest thing to get to & they are really old anyway.

 

[Terby]

Thanks for the info. I didn't buy any parts from echo fix because they are really expensive by the time they are shipped to the U.K. I sourced the bearings, felt & machine oil etc locally. The bearings are just generic sizes & easily sourced. I bought them from simplybearings.co.uk . All the parts came to about £20 u.k I did service the pinch roller bearing so it's not gummed up. I think I will probably recap the motor controller board first since thais the easiest thing to get to & they are really old anyway.

Recapping the motor board definitively helped to bring back my RE-501 back to life (motor did not start at all or slowed down to a halt)

 

[industrialarts]

Thanks for the info. I didn't buy any parts from echo fix because they are really expensive by the time they are shipped to the U.K. I sourced the bearings, felt & machine oil etc locally. The bearings are just generic sizes & easily sourced. I bought them from simplybearings.co.uk . All the parts came to about £20 u.k I did service the pinch roller bearing so it's not gummed up. I think I will probably recap the motor controller board first since thais the easiest thing to get to & they are really old anyway.

Yes, recapping the motor supply won't hurt. A couple of other things I though about:
what tape are you using? are the heads and transport clean? Also, make sure the tape tension isn't too high and it's threaded right. Are the heads badly worn? That can increase tape tension as well.

I may have a set of Hall sensors if all that doesn't fix the problem

 

[Rob Flinn]

I recapped the motor psu & it seems much better.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

 

[Rgoc]

I recapped the motor psu & it seems much better.

Thanks for the tips everyone.


Rob, sorry to resurrect this post on you, but my RE-201 (pioneer brushless) is having the same symptoms you described. I have pulled it apart, cleaned it up and tried everything mechanical I could think of, but she still needs a tiny push of the pinch roller to get moving. When I had it abart I played with it a bit. I noticed little to no magnetic resistance if the armature was stopped in a certain area. About a quarter or third of the overall circumference doesn't seem to push the motor around... like a dead spot in the armature. Once it goes it seems to pass the spot no problem. No weakness in overall performance at all. My question is, since you've had it apart got the solder out and replace a bunch of components. Can you point me in any specific component to focus on? The caps? The hall ICs? Thank you very much sir your attention is appreciated.

Rob G. from Nebraska

 

[industrialarts]

Did you check the multipin connectors on the edge of the power supply board? Two things - small cracks on the solder side and corrosion on the pin and connector.

The dead spot could be a Hall sensor. Usually they make the motor jittery but I guess if it was bad, it might exhibit that sort of problem

 

[Rob Flinn]

Sorry Rob, I'm not really sure what your issue is, I just did what I detailed in this thread based on the advice people gave. What I did find was that the tension on the spring arm thing where the tape comes out if the cassette needs to be lighter than one at first thinks.

 

[nille]

Did you check the multipin connectors on the edge of the power supply board? Two things - small cracks on the solder side and corrosion on the pin and connector.

+1
After cleaning all Molex connectors (ejecting pins from housing, remove green corrosion and bring springiness back to some of them)
my RE301 is running and sounding perfect.