Splitting an XLR output...

[T-Dogg]

Hi guys... I'm feeding a UA Solo 610 mic preamp directly into my AD converter -- doing so causes a slight latency (as I am monitoring off of the soundcard output.) The latency is relatively low -- somewhere between 2-6ms, but enough to cause audible phasiness when recording vocals and monitoring via headphones...

I'd like to split the XLR output from the preamp -- I can then run the extra feed directly into my console and monitor off of that signal, avoiding all latency... (Of course I could plug the pre into my board and buss it to the AD converters, but I'm trying to avoid the boards electronics in my signal path.)

I know it seems like such a silly, simple question, but what would be the cleanest, most transparent way to split the signal? A simple "Y" cable? An active splitter? Isolated? Transformer based? I'd like to get something together somewhat quickly -- I see Rolls, Samson, and quite a few other guys make boxes in the $50 range, though I can't speak of quality... I'd also DIY something if it could be easily tossed together for cheaper... What do ya think?

 

[sodderboy]

Y cable, or mult if you are using a bay. Don't put anything active in the path.
Mike

 

[T-Dogg]

Awesome -- I was hoping to hear that... Thanks!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I hard wire split should be fine, but be careful a/d doesn't unbalance the line. Should measure same impedance from pin2 and 3 to ground.

JR

 

[SonsOfThunder]

I use a Y-cable for that very purpose all the time. Works great with my MOTU 1224 and Yammy MC1602. I like to use the mixer to add verb for the HP mix for singers without adding it to the recorded signal. Sometimes it makes quite a diff for the singer and sometimes they find it annoying.

HTH!
Charlie

 

[Apache5]

Hi, Im not sure if I understand correctly your routing... but I usually want to hear the signal out from my DAW (the signal comming from D/A, the signal with 5 or 5ms latency). I prefer to hear the recorded signal, in order to listen what Im really recording inside my HD, it is the signal that I will have when mixing. I only listen the signal coming from my DAW and I dont understand how you can hear phasiness if you only listen the recorded one, without the pre-recorded one... or you want to listen both added, why?
Maybe Im missing something in that...

Arnau

 

[T-Dogg]

Hi Arnau -- the phase shift occurs because the singer's ears are also picking up the direct sound of their voice (through vibrations in the jawbone/head resonating the ear drum, and well as some external leakage through the headphones.) Add on top of that a monitor feed that has been delayed by a few ms, and some people may perceive phase issues.

Really it's only a monitoring issue -- not for the engineer but the performer, and mainly only for vocals because of the proximity of the direct souce, being inside your head I can live with it when tracking guitars (if there's a little amp leakage in the backround coming through the cans). For mixdown, you're right, I monitor soley out of the DAW...

Phase issues aside, I find that I'm one of those people who are sensitive to latency in some regards -- playin through a guitar sim plugin for example, feel comfortable around 2ms (2.6 on my system actually...) At 6ms, I can feel the difference every time.

 

[Apache5]

ah, Ok Tim, now I understand you... :wink: now it has sense to me too. I was thinking about enginyer point of view and how important its (to me) to hear what I'm really recording. I understand now that you are talking about to send to the singer its own voice without latency and the enginer can still hear only the recorded one... I usually dont do that, but maybe I try it from now...
thanks for the explanation
:grin:

Arnau

 

[T-Dogg]

:grin: No problem -- I never did it much either when I started using outboard pres and bypassing my console... But I had one friend who always insisted he hated my main vocal mic, thought it was a piece of garbage, hated the way it made his voice sound -- tinny and unsettled... (It was a Neumann TLM193, maybe not their most memorable microphone, but certainly not terrible!)

But when we'd listen back to the takes, we'd agree it sounded fine. I'd have him sing into the mic while I listen through his monitor feed... Again, sounded fine to me... So I figured it was just his own insecurities about his voice, and disregarded it.

But as soon as I started tracking my own vocals I understood! Certain things would jump out at ya, and there was a generally unfocused tinny sound... Some people would never be bothered by it, and will do "their thing" regardless of the headphone vocal sound... but I suppose its certainly something to be aware of.