SSL 4000g+ AUX 1 & 2 fault

[Spiro]

Hi
I have a problem with a SSL4000 G plus with TR  ultamation (1996) console Im hoping someone can help me with.
The problem is with aux 1 & 2
When the desk is set to MIX MODE and all channels reset, we insert 1k tone to line in eg CH 1 and out of large fader to quad bus as normal.
On the same channel we use all auxs 1 to 4 to send to FX, all works fine
However, when for example, we solo an adjacent channel 2,  aux 3 & 4 on channel 1 are cut as normal but aux 1 & 2 are NOT. Indicating there is some sort of Bleed on the the master Aux/cues 1  & 2 section, this is the same across all channels.
Has anyone come across this fault before any surgestions as to what this may be caused by.
Many thanks

 

[sodderboy]

It is prolly a blown 10 ohm fusing resistor on the aux card in the centre section.  Pull the manual, look through the 611 chapter for the proper card, dead-patch all amps, power-down, pull the 611, and test all of the 10R for open resistance.  75% chance it is one of them.
Mike

 

[SSLtech]

Are you in Mix, or Record-in-mix?

Are the cues being sent pre-fade or post-fade?

If the cues work correctly (ignoring 'mutes' from other channels being soloed) then the summing amp is fine... that's a red-herring.

If the cues cut with the Module's own cut/mute, but not when the channel's "solo-cut" mode is active (i.e. when some OTHER channel is soloed) then it's a logic setting.

on consoles intended for only mixing -no recording- they can be set to cut everything, including all cues. On consoles intended for recording, it's possible to set the channel mutes so that the cue sends remain active, the intention being that headphone mixes sent from aux cues don't ALSO 'solo'... in other words, the operator can solo without f*#!ing up the artist's cue mixes.  -I think Cues 1, 2 and Cue stereo will behave this way, when sent pre-fade.

Can you clarify what you mean, and whether my understanding of what you're trying to say (as decribed) is correct or not?

Keef

 

[Spiro]

Hi guys
thanks for the prompt reply.
The desk is in MIX MODE, all cues/aux are set to post-fade. important observation CUE ST' works fine, as do aux 3 & 4.
in REC MODE all cues default to pre-fade and seem to work normally.

TESTING-(MIX MODE)
Insert desk osolator to Channel 1 line-in and out to quad bus, turn on CUE ST, CUE 1 & 2 (all set to post fade). observe signal in cues as normal. 
'CUT'  channel 1 all cues are cut as normal.
Now solo for example channel 2, observe cues  - CUE ST is cut as expected, However, cues 1 & 2 are NOT cut.
i have tried swapping over the two cards (CUE MASTERS) in the 611.
tried to find a come denominator (i.e.  cue amp 1 is on card 1 and cue amp 2 is on card 2)
i haven't yet tried checking the fusible resistors in the 611, all other functions work fine.
I'm trying to work out if its a logic fault, if so where to start ?
i'm not keen to go back into 611 until i've exhausted all other possibilities,
is there a logic setting i can check on in the manual perhaps ? suggestions gratefully received.
many thanks
spiro

 

[jollyted]

Sorry to hi-jack this thread...

I need to get hold of Keith (ssltech).

Keith, if you read this, send an email to me as your email address I have doesn't work. I need to talk with you urgently re: some business.

My email is info (at)grssystems (dot) com

Thanks,

Ted Jolly
GRS Pro Audio Systems

 

[SSLtech]

Hi guys
thanks for the prompt reply.
The desk is in MIX MODE, all cues/aux are set to post-fade. important observation CUE ST' works fine, as do aux 3 & 4.
in REC MODE all cues default to pre-fade and seem to work normally.

TESTING-(MIX MODE)
Insert desk osolator to Channel 1 line-in and out to quad bus, turn on CUE ST, CUE 1 & 2 (all set to post fade). observe signal in cues as normal. 
'CUT'  channel 1 all cues are cut as normal.
Now solo for example channel 2, observe cues  - CUE ST is cut as expected, However, cues 1 & 2 are NOT cut.
i have tried swapping over the two cards (CUE MASTERS) in the 611.
tried to find a come denominator (i.e.  cue amp 1 is on card 1 and cue amp 2 is on card 2)
i haven't yet tried checking the fusible resistors in the 611, all other functions work fine.
I'm trying to work out if its a logic fault, if so where to start ?
i'm not keen to go back into 611 until i've exhausted all other possibilities,
is there a logic setting i can check on in the manual perhaps ? suggestions gratefully received.
many thanks
spiro

Can you check something else for me... Can you confirm that the level sent to the cues (1 & 2 and cue stereo) ALL fade down when you pull down the channel fader?

 

[Spiro]

hi
sorry haven't posted for a few day, been out of town.
i've been back to the SSL4000

And I think i've got some facts wrong.
just to clarify
IN 'MIX MODE' the desk is reset and the only thing i have turned on is the MASTER CUES ST, 1 & 2 aux 3 & 4.
With a signal going in to CH1 and ALL channel cues turned OFF, ch1 fader at unity in quad buss. no bleed is present in cues 1 & 2, as expected.
Now solo CH1,  bleed is observed in CUES 1 & 2 ONLY  all other cues are fine. (please note at this point the ch 1 cues are turned OFF (as on all channels) and channel 1  fader at unity 0.
Now turn down channel fader bleed is gone.
It would appear that the bleed is only present when soloing the channel the input signal is going into in this case ch1,
When soloing another channel, E.G. channel 2 the signal from that channel 'when soloed'  bleeds on to cues 1 and 2 buss, even thou cues on that channel are turned OFF.

I'm getting the same problem in REC MODE with small fader soloed and REC + FADER REV MODE.
Pretty  much any where i use the solo on large or small fader.
i can control the amount of bleed on CUES 1 & 2 by turning down the Master cue sends 1 & 2, until i can work out a solution.

further testing
whilst ch1 in solo turn ON cue 1 or 2 and adjust,  indicates normal operation,
However, the bleed signal is still present but apparently inverted and much lower, i checked this on the Phase scope with bleed signal present on the left and the ch1 output panned to right for  comparison.
  right now i'm getting into the manual trying to work out a solution.
will report back if i can figure out a starting point.
any suggestions gratefully received

talk soon
spiro

 

 

[SSLtech]

Are ALL of the ground jumpers correct on the modules?

The ones next to the Aux resistor 'ladder' at the bottom of the module, near the edge connector.

-These do funny things to the auxes when so much as ONE is incorrectly set....

 

[Spiro]

Hi
Thanks for the reply.
I'm just going through the manual right now.
I shall check out the jumpers and report back tomorrow.
Many thanks

Regards
Spiro