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Ike Zimbel

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Apr 17, 2011
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347
Location
Toronto, Canada
I have what I call a "bench-bomb" on my bench...in this case a piece of Hi-Fi gear that I took on in a moment of weakness (although, to be fair, it was a referral from an internationally respected studio acoustics colleague).
Enough preamble: The issue, with this 1970's vintage transistor pre-amp is; after it has been on, with test tones running, for about 20 minutes, one channel slowly starts to fade out (can take several minutes) and then go dead.
On the scope, the negative side of the waveform starts to flatten out first, with the positive side looking healthy, IIRC, right up until the signal disappears. This originally came back to me, after re-capping it with the fault in Ch-B. I traced that back to a shorted transistor in the line amp, Q56 (although I don't think that transistor was actually shorted to begin with...how could it work for 20 minutes if it was?). I replaced that transistor, a 2N24249 (although it's called out on the schemo as "2N4250") with a MPS92 (one is EBC and the other CBE so I just had to mount it the opposite way) and that side came back to life and hasn't failed in any subsequent tests. However, when I was burning it in, Ch-A decided to fail in exactly the same way, except that replacing Q6 does not solve the issue (nor was it shorted). NOTHING is getting hot, or otherwise showing signs of thermal stress at all. Before the failure sets in, both sides show essentially identical THD and N.
I have looked pretty thoroughly for cold solder joints and haven't found any. And, normally, such a joint would be more likely to NOT work until it got a blast of signal or was wiggled etc, not the other way round. I have never seen this behaviour before. Any ideas? I'm only including the relevant section of the schematic as I got the manual from another site and I'm not sure what their re-use permissions are.
1664215123569.png
 
Do the DC voltages marked on the schematic change between "cold" and "warm" states?
 
The obvious suspects are electorlytic caps. Transistor parameters like Vbe, beta, etc can change with temperature. Does it respond to percussive trouble shooting (tapping with a pencil eraser)?

JR
 
The obvious suspects are electorlytic caps. Transistor parameters like Vbe, beta, etc can change with temperature. Does it respond to percussive trouble shooting (tapping with a pencil eraser)?

JR
I was thinking about electrolytics this morning. They are all "new" although some of they may have been in my inventory for a while. They were all tested for ESR and value before installation, and measured perfectly. I may replace them again anyway, just to get this thing off my bench.
 
I had a bash at it this afternoon, after being away from the shop for 12 days. Same behaviour, took about 30 min to appear. I tried a test on the two 4.7uf caps that I have found helpful in the past: Leave them on a continuous read-out cap checker, my Circuit Test DCM-200 (as opposed to a "snapshot" tester like the Peak, which I also have, and would have used to verify the caps in the first place) just to see if the value would change over time. Many's the time I have removed caps that measured close to the correct value, but left on the tester for a while will decrement downwards in value over several minutes. These did not do that, at all.
Then I made a chart to keep the voltage measurements straight, and found some that were way out to lunch (although I only had time to do this for two of the four transistors so far). The chart shows the p/n on the left, the transistor pin, then the voltages from the schematic followed by voltages measured on Ch-A and Ch-B. As you can see, Ch-B has some readings that are way out.
1664244136589.png
 
Check (or replace) R21, R22, R33.

Looks like Q3 is slowly drifting towards non-conduction, which drives its collector voltage up, which in turn gets Q4 conducting more and more.
 
I had a bash at it this afternoon, after being away from the shop for 12 days. Same behaviour, took about 30 min to appear. I tried a test on the two 4.7uf caps that I have found helpful in the past: Leave them on a continuous read-out cap checker, my Circuit Test DCM-200 (as opposed to a "snapshot" tester like the Peak, which I also have, and would have used to verify the caps in the first place) just to see if the value would change over time. Many's the time I have removed caps that measured close to the correct value, but left on the tester for a while will decrement downwards in value over several minutes. These did not do that, at all.
Then I made a chart to keep the voltage measurements straight, and found some that were way out to lunch (although I only had time to do this for two of the four transistors so far). The chart shows the p/n on the left, the transistor pin, then the voltages from the schematic followed by voltages measured on Ch-A and Ch-B. As you can see, Ch-B has some readings that are way out.
View attachment 98926
Update! I replaced Q3 with a BC184C (drop in replacement, pinout wise, slightly lower hfe) and the fault cleared. Replaced Q5, Q55 with same in hopes that I will never see this thing again. Thanks to all for the input, it was helpful!
 

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