Tape Recorder Preamp, what to do next?

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somorastik

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
47
Hi,

I am working on two modules of some kind of vintage Czechoslovak Tape recorder preamplifier.
I would like to make two separate channels for each module, to have a total of 4 microphone preamplifiers!

But is the schematic suitable for a mic preamp?
What to do with the output? I was thinking a next stage with ballanced output, any recomendations?

I tested the modules using generator and oscilloscope, the supply was 12V. The gain and modulation of the input signal was decent.

2ab_001_610_456.jpg

2AB_001_610_175_1.png
 
I can't read the scheme very well, anyway, I won't use that as a mic pre, there you usually want low series resistance and gain control on the first active amplification stage, in your case you have variable series resistance (because the pot) and level feed to the first stage is what is changing, the gain will be always the same. Noise performance in this configuration won't be good at all, at line levels it probably isn't a problem since level is much higher and the noise from resistor (thermal in the best case) won't be a problem.

JS
 
> can't read the scheme very well

Click the PDF link under the image.

> is the schematic suitable for a mic preamp?

There's a pot *before* the amplifier. This is not the tape-head amp, and would not be good for a mike-amp, because the S/N gets poor when the pot is turned down.

However there are two transformers? And the original pot-connection was not like is shown in your computer drawing? Maybe it is a very low-performance 2-input mike mixer.

It is a VERY common 2-transistor circuit. (Maybe more recognizable if the resistor-string under T2 is drawn down-to-ground and R9 run short-way to T1 Base.)

It is shown with a fixed gain of about 50.

The bias looks a bit sloppy, though I'd need a big pencil or a SPICE to be sure.

It can probably drive 10K load to 2V peak. Very much a home hi-fi output (or a middle stage with a pro-type final output stage).

If you have four transformers, use them with basic op-amp boosters to get four mike channels.
 
Hi,

Thank you for all the replies!

As PRR suggested a simple IC preamp would be better.
I used a basic schematic from Jensen.
Made the board all in smd (why waste space?)

I will feed the output to my Alesis Firewire 12 Multimix to LINE IN.

Any opinions?

SimpleonestageICmicpreamp.png

SimpleonestageICmicpreamp_brd.png
 
somorastik said:
Hi,

Thank you for all the replies!

As PRR suggested a simple IC preamp would be better.
I used a basic schematic from Jensen.
Made the board all in smd (why waste space?)

I will feed the output to my Alesis Firewire 12 Multimix to LINE IN.

Any opinions?

SimpleonestageICmicpreamp.png

SimpleonestageICmicpreamp_brd.png

You should take R3 out of it, only adding noise there, also you should use 1206 SMD resistor or bigger, smaller ones sometimes show appreciable unlinearities that we don't want in audio, I don't know if this is true for newer manufacture but have seen some experiments about it.

Still you need a front end to add a pad and +48P. The zobel network (R1 and C3) and the loading resistor (R2) should be tuned properly, R2 is to get proper input impedance for the mic, ~2k is ok, tune it depending on your transformer ratio. For the zobel you should make a test for overshoot at square wave in a scope or spectrum analysis over audible range, preferably for each transformer in particular.

JS
 
Thank you for reply joaquins!

I decided to scrap the modules and leave just the four transformers I have. The transformers (at least similar models) are top quality.

I am implementing all the changes and I should have one channel ready on monday, with all the phase, phantom, pad and hi-z low-z switches.

Anyway, I am a newbie to Zobel Network tuning!
I have all the stuff needed to measure at work (Fluke function generator, desktop voltmeter and oscilloscope)

Could you write a quick guide on tuning a Zobel Network in a configuration like mine? I would be very interessted!

Thank you  :)


Found this in another thread
Edit:
Jensen text:

"Thanks for contacting Jensen Transformers.
There is no simple way to calculate the series RC damping networks for
microphone input transformers. Interwinding capacitance is not important,
it is distributed capacitance within the windings that matters, and this is
not an easily measurable quantity. Also, the transformer needs to be damped
with all of the circuit stray capacitances and loads in place around the
transformer. This is especially true with tube circuit designs where the
"miller" capacitance of the first stage may be VERY significant. The
simplest way to determine the proper damping network for a microphone input
transformer is experimentally. The method is actually quite simple and
fast once that you have done it a couple of times and have gotten together
the proper kit of tools to make it easy.

SETUP:

1) Drive the microphone input with a squarewave generator that has a
source impedance of 150 Ohms. This value is approximately in the middle of
the range of source impedances common to most microphones. If you have a
special situation where the microphone is going to have a known, much lower
impedance (say 20 Ohms), use this impedance instead. Make sure that the
output signal from the generator has nice clean, fast edges with no overshoot.

2) Set the generator for a signal level of approximately 0.1 Volts peak to
peak and a frequency of approximately 5 to 10 kHz.

3) Power the microphone pre-amp and adjust the gain to a level about 10dB
below clipping. The level isn't real critical, just make sure that the
pre-amp is operating in a normal gain range and that it isn't clipping.

4) Connect an oscilloscope across the secondary of the input transformer
using a x10 low capacitance oscilloscope probe. You MUST use a x10 probe in
order to prevent adding SIGNIFICANT capacitance across the secondary of the
transformer. Make sure that you have "calibrated" the oscilloscope probe
trimmer capacitor before starting this procedure.

5) Connect a capacitor substitution box in series with a 20k or 50k pot
and place this network across the secondary of the transformer. You may
also want to include a 1k pot in series with the 20k pot as a "fine"
adjustment control. The capacitor substitution box should have a range of
100pF to about 10,000pF for typical microphone input transformers. Extra
capacitors can be added in parallel if you need larger values. Standard 10%
value increments (100pF, 120pF, 150pF etc.) should provide enough
resolution for even "fussy" tweaking.

6) Make sure that the basic impedance determining load resistor is in
place across the secondary of the transformer. This value is typically 1500
Ohms x the turns ratio squared (for example our JT-115K-E uses 1500 Ohms x
10 x 10 = 150kOhms). This resistor sets the input impedance of the
microphone pre-amp.

ADJUSTMENT PROCEDURE:

1) Set the capacitor substitution box to the highest value (1000pF to
10,000pF) and adjust the pot for maximum resistance value (20k to 50k).

2) While watching the oscilloscope, lower the value of the pot. This
should decrease the overshoot of the waveform and reduce the ringing.
Adjust the pot for the highest value that will prevent all the overshoot
and ringing.

3) The objective now is going to be to find the SMALLEST value of
capacitance and the HIGHEST value of resistance that will eliminate all the
overshoot and ringing and leave just a smooth, flat topped squarewave with
a nice fast rising edge.

4) Keep decreasing the value of the capacitance and re-tuning the pot
until you can no longer eliminate the ringing and overshoot by adjusting
the pot. Go back to the last higher value of capacitance and do a final
tweak of the pot and then measure the final resistance value. These values
are your final damping network.

NOTE: Some transformers will have very high frequency, very small amplitude
ringing in addition to the main lower frequency, large amplitude ringing.
You will probably NOT be able to tweak this effect out of the transformer,
but it is usually not anything to worry about because it is so far removed
from the audio frequency range and results in only a small fraction of a
dB of frequency response variation at a point where the transformer
response is already 10dB or 20dB down from reference level.

Dale Roche - Project Engineer "
 

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