The Problem with Social Media

[DaveP]

I think everyone would acknowledge that many western countries are becoming more divided, I have often wondered why it is happening now, so I would like to put forward this theory:-

Before social media, an incident would happen and it would only have a local effect, whether that was someone making an OK sign right through to sexual harassment and beyond.  It's like lighting a screwed up newspaper, it would flare up then die down for lack of fuel.  Do the same thing in a garage or an oil refinery and things might get out of hand.

While positive outcomes from social media are happening, uncovering of serious crimes, crowd funding and public support for victims are examples, these are also unbalanced by greatly increased negativity as well, trolls, fake news and a general inflammation about every perceived injustice.  I believe the latter is behind the growing divisiveness in countries with full on social media.

When older people were growing up, they may have taken part in "Ban the Bomb" marches or demos against the Vietnam war for example, the rest of the time we all got on OK for the most part.  Crackpot conspiracy theories got no traction and were confined to eccentrics.  Girls never self harmed or got anorexia nervosa or bulimia and I doubt that anyone knew or heard of anyone with such conditions.

Personally, I think the negative aspects of social media outweigh the positives, it has led to far more bullying and low self esteem than its inventors ever envisaged.  I think that the notoriety of mass shooters and copy cat crimes are also enhanced by social media.  People and families who might have simply talked to each other are now lost in their own social media world.

I was on FB for a few months around 2007 until I realised that it left little time for real life, so I quit, I would be interested to hear other peoples opinions on the subject.

DaveP

 

[living sounds]

Girls never self harmed or got anorexia nervosa or bulimia and I doubt that anyone knew or heard of anyone with such conditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_anorexia_nervosa

 

[boji]

It comes down to people evolving too slow to adapt to technology.  The limbic systems of iGen's (Generation Internet/iPhone) simply can't reign itself in when met with unlimited access to macro-scale psychosocial stimulation from the moment of birth.
Nowadays all it takes is a well placed, well timed rhetorical bomb to put you right at the front of a retweet wave. Friends see friends getting crazy subs and respect with hyper-idealized instagram threads. Add to this the emergence of  'Call-out' culture that has turned social activism into a game of status, and those with a million followers on deck "really do have it better".  What to do?  Meanwhile the algorithms are doing everything they can to confirm your bias and keep you clicking deeper into anything that will keep your attention, no matter how it shifts your perspective on reality...

 

[desol]

I just think of it as a natural evolution of human communication, via technology. In other words, it is what it is...and the purposes it serves will be served.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Girls never self harmed or got anorexia nervosa or bulimia and I doubt that anyone knew or heard of anyone with such conditions.

Dave,

You're such a smart guy, genuinely, can you really not see this?  Many many people suffered back when America (and Britain & Ireland) were "Great", they just weren't middle class white males and you as such were not hearing their stories.  If you were gay, black, intersex, trans or just female, etc etc life was not the utopia that so many 60+ white males seem to be hankering for.

Social media is generally toxic IMO, I use Instagram for work and avoid everything else.  But to pretend that it is the cause of Anorexia or similar issues is very wrong, people have always suffered with these conditions.  Anyone who was "different" suffered in my home country, and their stories and experience were repressed for fear of upsetting norms and values (mostly Catholic B.S.). Every day that someone can be who they are and share their messy story is a cause for celebration in my world.

I live in Los Angeles, a crazy, expensive and intense city.  My favorite thing about living here is the diversity of race, sexuality, experience and culture.  I grew up in a monocultural "Utopia" and I am very content to leave that behind. 

Respectfully, always,
Ruairi

 

[pucho812]

I think there is more to do with a 24 hour news cycle.

Being so connected all the time and 24 hour news cycles are dangerous.  They want to be first with the story even if it is not right.
What are the dangers of a 24 hour news cycle?
More mean spirited, more polarized electorate info overload all the time, It plays a huge part in the rest. Look at how people se "News" and spread it even though it may be wrong or not factual.

 

[L´Andratté]

"The Age Of Outrage" is a pretty interesting essay by Jonathan Haidt, not my opinion, but it adds a couple of mosaic pieces to the picture...
https://www.city-journal.org/html/age-outrage-15608.html
It´s about the US, but really...

 

[DaveP]

can you really not see this?  Many many people suffered back when America (and Britain & Ireland) were "Great", they just weren't middle class white males and you as such were not hearing their stories.  If you were gay, black, intersex, trans or just female, etc etc life was not the utopia that so many 60+ white males seem to be hankering for.

You are superimposing present injustices back to an earlier time that you did not witness, it does not translate.
I am talking about ordinary working class people such as I grew up with in the East End of London, not the middle class.  People were too busy earning a living most of the time.  The term "gay" was not used it was Queer back then,  There were very few Black people either, I never saw one until I was eleven.  Nobody was trans or intersex because the conversion operation and hormone treatments were not available for ordinary people.  Women did not have the opportunities that they have now for sure. 

But this is missing the point,  I think the advent of mass advertising on TV in the 50's started the "comparison problem" for young girls and social media has accelerated the problem.  Women, for the most part, are passive in their sexuality and they rely on their powers of attraction to find a mate.  Social media and advertising sets up unrealistic role models and filters which destabilise vulnerable girls who would otherwise never have seen such unreality.  They become convinced they are not attractive because of social media.

Most of the world was not aware of anorexia until Karen Carpenter in the 80's, now there are banned anorexia groups who actually promote the disease and lifestyle on social media.  Some in the ruling classes may have had the opportunity to practice fasting in the past, working people suffered hunger.

The point of my post was that social media is an accelerant for both good and ill, but I am proposing it is causing social division, because of call-out culture as others have said.

DaveP

 

[ruffrecords]

The point of my post was that social media is an accelerant for both good and ill, but I am proposing it is causing social division, because of call-out culture as others have said.

DaveP

I think the accelerant  point is the key. The human condition remains much the same. I rememeber when I was a lad the local pub was the equivalent of face book. Every night there were heated discussions and it was not uncommon for a fight to break out but the disagreement  never went any further geographically. With social media a much larger more disparate section of the population is involved and because they are distanced from  others in the discussions they feel able to say things they would not dare to face to face.

Cheers

Ian

 

[DaveP]

That is very well put Ian.  I agree.

DaveP

 

[cyrano]

The main reason why Facebook has such an impact, is that it is publicity squared. The publicity is targeted and thus has a far greater impact.

As such, you could say it's not social media an sich, but it's the data collection that's the real danger. This forum is also of form of social media, after all, isn't it?

What maddens me, is the publicity targeted at young kids. It's very hard to protect them from the effects. Especially in autumn, when the big sales events are nearing.

 

[living sounds]

People were too busy earning a living most of the time. 

IF there is a higher rate of these types of these mental illnesses (don't know, and it's generally not easy to get defintive answers to these kinds of questions) it may ultimately be due to all the changes that came with an increase in living standards. Live was shorter, harder, there was less less free time, food, overall resources etc.  Marketing was not nearly as pervasive and sophisticated. So it may have been a problem for Roman time or 17th century nobility already, but not for peasants.

I don't think bullying is worse than it was in earlier times. A lot of contradictionary trends are happening simultaniously. Some things are better, some things are worse. Standards, perceptions, cultures overall change to a certain degree, always have, always will.

Now social media I think is a problem. The traditional filter of smarter-than-average people was a good thing IMO. Most people are not mentally or educationally equipped to deal with complex issues. And even those who are can succumb to certain mechanisms and become part of a mob. We need regulation for social media as we have regulation for traditional media. And I think the time will come when social media looks old because something newer and better comes along.

 

[JohnRoberts]

IF there is a higher rate of these types of these mental illnesses (don't know, and it's generally not easy to get defintive answers to these kinds of questions) it may ultimately be due to all the changes that came with an increase in living standards. Live was shorter, harder, there was less less free time, food, overall resources etc.  Marketing was not nearly as pervasive and sophisticated. So it may have been a problem for Roman time or 17th century nobility already, but not for peasants.

I don't think bullying is worse than it was in earlier times. A lot of contradictionary trends are happening simultaniously. Some things are better, some things are worse. Standards, perceptions, cultures overall change to a certain degree, always have, always will.

Now social media I think is a problem. The traditional filter of smarter-than-average people was a good thing IMO. Most people are not mentally or educationally equipped to deal with complex issues. And even those who are can succumb to certain mechanisms and become part of a mob. We need regulation for social media as we have regulation for traditional media. And I think the time will come when social media looks old because something newer and better comes along.

Human nature has not evolved much over recent history but the internet has reduced the friction that used to prevent instant communication with millions of people all around the world.

I love being able to chew the fat with friends from all around the world, but social media shows the worst side of human nature where people can be cruel to strangers often anonymously,

This instant communication is driving cultural shifts probably faster than is healthy for us to absorb, but we will adapt to this too.

JR

 

[boji]

I read somewhere that the lion's share of social shaming/activism is a late generation thing. Which is to say Gen X's and Y's rev-limit the vitriol. May we blame the doting, preemptive parental guards of Gen Z for the moral panic? 

I remember when I was a lad the local pub was the equivalent of facebook.

True, and as well, one's fame and 'following' was primarily determined by the local paper or news reportage.

We've leveraged the ability to communicate quite well. But god, just wait until implants feed the information directly to the eye and ear via nerve stimulation...   In our lifetime, I'd guess! Some Black Mirror episode comes to mind.

 

[boji]

And fairly decent answer to the problem, imo :
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/the-threat-of-tribalism/568342/

 

[madswitcher]

I read somewhere that the lion's share of social shaming/activism is a late generation thing. Which is to say Gen X's and Y's rev-limit the vitriol. May we blame the doting, preemptive parental guards of Gen Z for the moral panic? 
True, and as well, one's fame and 'following' was primarily determined by the local paper or news reportage.

We've leveraged the ability to communicate quite well. But god, just wait until implants feed the information directly to the eye and ear via nerve stimulation...   In our lifetime, I'd guess! Some Black Mirror episode comes to mind.

Could you (or perhaps someone else) kindly put that into plain English please.

Kind regards,

Mike

 

[Gustav]

Could you (or perhaps someone else) kindly put that into plain English please.

Kind regards,

Mike

I think he's saying that social media idiocy is a generational phenomenon, and younger generations are actually using it more constructively/not at all.

Gustav

 

[Phrazemaster]

This is a pretty fascinating discussion. I have to agree that social media is an accelerant to the worst aspects of human behavior. I think the anonymity encourages bullying, and the far reach of a comment magnifies it’s effects.

Ultimately the internet has created a huge mob mentality wherein any individual who feels slighted (whether legitimately or not) can gather groups of likeminded folk into perpetual metoo movements. I am not dissing the #metoo movement by the way. But social media has given a platform and a voice to endless groups of people who focus their energy in often divisive ways.

In other words I believe the internet has divided us much more than it has ever united us. And it leaves us stupid and vulnerable to manipulation by whoever knows how to play the game. It’s elevated the art of manipulation into a deadly weapon capable of swaying elections and inciting kids to suicide. It brings out the very worst in us. Google the number of people who have died pulling stunts they wanted to post on YouTube or Facebook.

Where does this lead? I don’t know but I log into Facebook at most once every 6 months. I used to drop a heck of a lot of time there but I don’t miss it.

Mike

 

[DaveP]

Thinking about JR talking about us evolving to accept new things.....
When most of Europe's population was settled in villages and a few large towns back in the period 800 to 1300 there was very little communication other than purely verbal because only a few nobles and clergy could write.  The church services were conducted in Latin and the ordinary people had no idea whether they were being told the truth or not.

The advent of the printing press in the 1400's caused the first real upset because it spread Luther's ideas from Germany and Wycliffe's Bible translation into English at the same time.  Thus it destabilized the status quo and undermined the power of the Catholic Church, which was a key partner to the ruling classes at the time.

Most of the the population could not read however, a situation that was not remedied until the 1840's  which was also around the time that the railways allowed mass movement of people and ideas.  With the growth of readers, came the time of the independent newspapers, which served the various classes of left and right and haves and have nots.  The next major innovations  to influence public opinion were radio in the 30's and TV in the 50's, but none of these media gave the opportunity to answer back or to give voice to our own ideas, this has been the big plus/minus of social media.  We have all suddenly gained a voice that our ancestors never had unless they were rich enough to own newspapers or write books.

From my rough resume, the curve looks exponential, very slow growth followed by a dramatic upward turn in recent years, no wonder we are all still reeling from its effects.  We are only now demanding some form of regulation to filter out hate speech and fake news, for the moment it is still the Wild West, but the US cavalry is coming over the horizon

DaveP

 

[desol]

I see social media(and the internet in general) as a huge grinder....grinding out the good from the bad....taking the human population to a new level of communication and new heights of global knowledge. If we could just get rid of idiots like trump the world would be a whole lot better!