tronaldinho`s 1st project GSSL photos and questions

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ptron

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
386
Location
Mexico
well as u all know i am a total noob i am delighted with this new field ive found the DIY. i just refurbished my speakers and done a few acoustic jobs with difusers and got into electronics when i found myself making a measuring microphone with an electret capsule :D
then it was the preamp and well.. long story short here i am on my first real project! almost all wired up.

i wanted to thank Jakob, Keith and Gyraff Audio for making this project available and possible, Barclaycon Dafydd from Expat, Gustav, Cheff, every single GSSL'r for posting your information and Harpo for so much help i recieved from him and y'all! thanks a lot.. and really the whole forum for sharing hehe :)

ok to the pics

DSC04100.jpg

started with the sidechain board :) it was the first one to arrive. thanks gustav !

DSC04104.jpg

diodes didnt fit and missing a couple of caps.. hehe sketchy messican ordering from mouser is meant to miss a couple of things

DSC04114.jpg

ok now its done! drilled some bigger holes on the diodes holes and got some caps with another order i had to do!

DSC04167.jpg

this is my second choice for capacitors (they are .1uF panasonic V series but they are 50 V i was wondering some people said was alright to use 50V ??! i hope this is right

DSC04116.jpg

main boards .. thanks chef!! (i didnt know about gustavs practice till after i ordered the boards from cheff..) ah well some honest good work .. one switch missing tho.. i ordered the ones that didnt fit! :( ah well i had to make a new order for the newly arrived turbo boards!! :)

DSC04165.jpg

k switch arrived! lovely.. pannels have holes, but i need to do a couple more for the turbo that i didnt expect ! thanks Expat Audio!!

DSC04161.jpg

here a detail of the solder job ... ;D im a noob please tell me if its not ok u guys :)

DSC04118.jpg

changed this from a green to a blue LED... was much cheaper and in stock with green one but i really rather have blue ones..

DSC04121.jpg

got the lid out carefully ... easy enough

DSC04124.jpg

u can get that part out too.. easier to get the LED out

Imagen005.jpg

this is... all the boards populated and almost all the wiring in place... tomorow im going to make the last things to the pannel and would like to have all in place by tomorow this time!! uhuu getting nervous and excited!! will post some more pics soon as i go along with the build.

just a few questions really before i plug it all and start getting dodgy fumes :D

Edited moved to the gssl thread


ok just a pic from my newly refurbished lovely ;D
DSC04172.jpg



well now its drilled so will see how we fix this issue of the power if there is one  :)

here are pics of the progress :)


Imagen011.jpg


Imagen010.jpg


and some hours later...

Imagen013.jpg

Imagen012.jpg

its ready to fire now i think just vcas and stuffs to put in

a day later..

Imagen026.jpg

all working properly but big hum coming from somewhere.... still testing..

voltages..
14.55
-14.76
11.80
-11.81

:) looking good i thinks


... EDIT. few days past and now its fixed! i think. i hope its ok and all the gurus of the SSL have passed their sight on this and if i am wrong with my ground-to-meter wiring scheme maybe someone will say something ;D if not i think im good with this beauty (still horrible i know but will post pics after the weekend when i can get the super 77 onto the faceplate and back :)

ok this are my noise measurments..

noiseRME.jpg


this is my soundcard input noise measurment with the unit OFF


noiseSSL.jpg


this is the noise from the compressor with full whack on makeup gain. when its all the way down i cant see it over the adaptors noise!! :) noiceee

Imagen038.jpg

couple days later.. pannel almost finished on photoshop trying to make a meter scale now!

Imagen056.jpg

my "mod" here if u can call it that.. just a few choices for the auto release.. altho resistor values i could change easily it kinda sounds nice... from quite fast auto release that u could really not hear almost but it blends the mix much nicer than the fast normal releases to well.. what i think is longer release but still shorter decay time for the second constant always
and distortion option :D couldnt resist hehe

Imagen053.jpg

all the guts fitted inside :)


Imagen047.jpg

Imagen052.jpg

my first board etching job :D cant go too wrong with such a small one


 
just a note, It's generally preferred that you post in the mondo  thread for the topic.

From the angled picture your soldering looks ok, it has to just connect the circuit and not connect anything unwanted. It's also fairly typical to end up ordering stuff a couple times... I can't think of one project I've gotten everything ordered just right.

As far as troubleshooting, look in the main thread, you can use the print option and then use find from your browser to find a key word. Since there are trimmers you have adjustments, most likely you need to do some adjustments using a source, DMM and or a SCOPE.

BTW I see some issues with your wiring.... Whats the red wire that goes from the IEC across all your controls to the left? It honestly looks like your power switch/light...   Would have been better to layout the pcb's on the right and power on the left over running it from right to left. It's not always the perfect way to get things done, but this is your first project so it's a learning experience.

The headers are made to make removing the wiring easy to service the PCB. Typically you want to buy the header,Connector, and pins to make up your connections. Honestly it's a pain, but less of one than trying to fix something that don't use them. Easy fix at a later time.


Kevin
 
Thanks a lot kevin! Ill repost the question in the gssl thread right away.. Im not sure whats wrong with it.. The fuses break when i turn the machine OFF weird... Only thing i could measure is iec connector and measured 16-17v in one leg and 117 on the other... My fuses were 1/4A 250v.
The red wire its what i mentioned yesterday... Design flaw i didnt thought through before drilling the pannel... Well lets see how to make the best out of it tho.

Thanks again man! Will keep this thread as a gallery and post the questions on the global one ;D

 
Regarding the fuse issue, what type and rating? What brand/model and VA and voltage rating of power transformer are you using? Exactly how do you have it wired up?


I'm guessing from your pictures that you went from IEC to the fuse, then to the switch then back around to the transformer for Line 1 and straight to the transformer for L2. The fuse type should be Slow Blow type.

A easy way to size your fuse is take the VA rating of the transformer divided by your mains voltage X 125% and always round down on actual sizes of fuse.
So for a 50VA transformer at 120V mains = (50VA / 120V) *125% = 0.5A (500ma) or smaller fuse, remember to round down not up.


 
Thanks so much for the words about fuse rating!! I really needed to know how to do that. My trafo is amevco 30VA (digikey TE62053-ND).  Im not sure bout the fuse kind but ill make sure to get a slow blow type altho not sure how to say that in mexican ;D
U r right bout the wiring.. Going from the trafo to fuse to power switch back to the trafo
POWERHOOKUPSKETCH.jpg


Blue wire from fuse is going to NC on power switch not C anymore

Thanks again!

And to answer bout headers.. I m pretty sire ididnt place them thingys inside right was awfully hard to get em in their place and i plugged one wrong wire so had to take it out :(
 
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/US2011/P2611.pdf

Your transformer power rating is a 15VA, not a 30VA.

They list there fusing there, show at the top: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/US2011/P2611.pdf


Normally a switch has a common and then a NC and NO position. Use a DMM to check the function of a switch, I always test my parts, switches etc.. Typical practice is placing the power source on Common and the switch on position to Normally open. As your drawing shows Line voltage from the fuse to the C and then your transformers Violet and Black to the NO connections.
 
Uh i dont know why i thoght otherwise damn!  So my fuse should be round 200 mA i think or 250 if the max secondary range fuse rating applies.. So i guess my fuse was too big if it said 1/4A 250V??
Im going to try and find it in radio shack i hope is possible or ill be stuck fuseless the whole weekend sittin on my thumb!!!
Man thanks so much really!
 
1/4 A = 250ma or 0.25A so your just slightly over based on 120V mains... Since your in mexico I'm assuming your mains voltage is similar to what we find in the US and Canada.

if you look at the ratings on the chart from Digikey it's for 230V so you x2 for 115V. Never the less they call out for an 200 mA fuse for 115-120V mains. Radio shack may not have your fuse, sometimes Industrial supply companies will have them.

A side note is thee is a little T placed on the fuse to help signify slo-blow.


For testing purposes you can use a higher rated fuse, just replace it before you put it in use full time.
 
thanks for that!! i didnt know i could get a bigger fuse to test! i will try and fetch it tomorow of maybe have to wait till monday.. damn missed the whole day without internet in the studio.
as u say radio shack dont make them.. they go down to 1 amp.

the other thing in my fuse it said1/4A 250 V... does that mean that in 120V my fuse was .5 amps max???  i still dont know why they burnt if they were slightly over or in this case really over :/ i checked all parts before placing too and it all seemed to work fine.. i think i connected the bypass switch on NC and NO so i guess this is why its LED wasnt on?

i tried the switch`s led with a 9Vbatt and some dropping resistors it still working fine.. ill try out connecting C and NO like u say :D thanks a lot for the noobs guideance

i got the feeling i threw myself on the deep end of the pool and realize i dont know how to swim... :D

the only thing i can think of is really how i wired the iec connector... the left leg is telling me 17V going to switch..  the right leg tellin me 117 going to fuse... there is continuity from ground pin to the case.. about 1 ohm resistance.... the only things i could say is .. meter LED was working and so was ON LED... which makes me assume at least power on ctrl and ssc board is there working..

btw i couldnt find no T on the fuses i been using.. but it gone thru 2 of them just by turning it off. when it was on it was ok...

i dont know if i shorted when measuring or trying to... all measurments are from the case in the com and the point to be measured on the red one?

got half amp ones now for testing .. ill run downtown monday and get 200 mA for the meantime i really wanna troubleshoot this guy now!
 
WOHOOO its passing audio!!!!!! :):):) .. all switches are working or so it seems.. but few issues..
first .. pretty loud hum/ hiss / noise ..

second.. when i bypass the unit it passes audio very nice.. when i put compressor in the volume goes down dramatically and none of the controls work hrmm.. but the meter goes all the way up like its compressing a LOT ... well some of the controls must be working but treshold and makeup arent doing what they should.. when i turn up makeup the gain goes down .. i guess i wired it wrong way around.. but treshold isnt doing anything

btw im going to copy this to the main GSSL thread thanks a lot kevin u made my day
 
Look in the main threads because there is some specify parts that are varied based on VCA parts used. I've not completed a GSSL so this is based on memory.  As I said earlier there is some adjustments which require a few tools to calibrate it.

The hum could be from the kris cross power. I'd recommend that you get 2 pieces of wire and twist them tightly. Go from the IEC to the switch on the top side of the case, place all signals on the bottom of the case so there very separated.
 
thanks!! i didnt realize u replied here cus i went and posted the problems on the main gssl thread like u said :D
about the wires and the iec and the switch i didnt understand what i need to do but im really up for anything its very loud hum and i kinda think its cus of the weird short the header has... (this is why i changed it.. was really hard to get it in place.) and i hope i didnt break a pcb trace..

thanks a lot !!
 
ptron said:
Only thing i could measure is iec connector and measured 16-17v in one leg and 117 on the other...
all measurments are from the case in the com and the point to be measured on the red one?
Measure between both legs with meter set for V AC in the at least 200V range for the about 120V expected voltage.

the other thing in my fuse it said1/4A 250 V... does that mean that in 120V my fuse was .5 amps max???
saying (depending on EU/US manufacturer breaking at least at or still just holding) 0.25A with a max.voltage of 250V to prevent arcing. No timing characteristic printed on (ranging from FF for super fast, F for fast, nothing for standard, MT for medium time lag to T for time lag) meaning standard fusing characteristic. You want a 'T' for 'time lag' fusing characteristic for the toroids higher inrush current.

i think i connected the bypass switch on NC and NO so i guess this is why its LED wasnt on?
What switch? 'its LED' implies, this switch has more than 3 contacts or not an LED built in.

first .. pretty loud hum/ hiss / noise ..
twist your hot/cold wires connecting between pcb and XLRs, so induced hum could be canceled out by the balanced line receivers.
XLRs pin1 connect to case?
You seem to use metal standoffs. There might be a ground loop caused by these conducting parts, if you have 0V connected to case ground at another place as well.
Keep your AC mains wires as far away from audio as possible. Member Kingston built a shielding tunneling system to improve this.
Rotating your toroid for least hum induction (most often highest field is where secondaries leave the toroid) might further help.

second.. when i bypass the unit it passes audio very nice..
Halfway there.

when i put compressor in the volume goes down dramatically and none of the controls work hrmm..
but the meter goes all the way up like its compressing a LOT ...
might be a short or wrong value part in the sidechain section.
Might have been an easier to debug idea to build the standard GSSL first and check, if its working correctly and add Turbo and SSC in a later building stage...

well some of the controls must be working but treshold and makeup arent doing what they should.. when i turn up makeup the gain goes down .. i guess i wired it wrong way around.. but treshold isnt doing anything
for makeup flip the outer makeup pot wires.
Zooming in your last pic, the wire connections between 'POT A' and 'POT B' on SSC pcb to the 'link' next to the 750k on control pcb are missing, leaving the threshold pot wiper unconnected.


 
thanks harpo!! i posted the progress in the GSSL thread to minimize the scattered information :) its working now.. it all i think relates to the same thing.. and i think i heard when it hapened.. when i was placing the header (10x connecting to ctrl pcb) i heard a crackling i think it was the solder down in one or two down there in the traces.. i really hope i didnt bust the pcb !! :/

the hum is still there and a lil buzzing but the whole comp works great!! i can really hear the difference on standard and turbo and the sidechain board working very propa! :) will be needing a little assistance somehow on the calibration later but first the hum must dissapear!! ;D
im not sure ive seen this shielding u say from kingston but im very interested in it cus u see my design is flawfull! :D needs all the help it can get

thanks a lot again! :) u made this possible and dude it sounds so good (take out the hum it will be perfect!! i was dancing with joy when all was working :D tears almost came out of my eyes its alive at last!!! :)

i twisted the outputs but the inputs are too short to twist!! damn.. should i swap the cables for longer ones? i thought shortest lenght was better always
btw the fuses i got one in my hand the full thing on the side says 1/4A 250W 312 and on the top it says LF (not sure if its the manufacturer or the type tho) and cus of spanish language here we can never be sure of the acronyms :( at least i cant untill someone tells me otherwise!

... btw the pot A and B are there just wires are blue and purple and kinda cant see them very well ;D

this is my only question its about hum ...
all xlr are connected from the pin 4 or dunno... to pin 1 ground.
u say might be a ground loop.. how could i fix that? :( its really loud hum not like neglectable...
i dont think i got 0v connected anywhere other than the standoffs and IEC connector i think..
i rotated my toroid but i cant notice any changes on the noise.. im not sure its hum but its a really loud noise that buzzes sometimes.. all the spectrum wide..

 
just a question for measuring pins on ic`s and vcas should i do that with vca`s fitted and all in place i guess but what settings should i have ? bypass mode and not passing audio?

could my problem be something like i didnt plug the jacks right? .. tip is + and ring - right?

@ harpo: actually if i measure between both legs of the IEC tells me 130V  that could be a problem?
-the switch i meant was the one i got pictures changing the LED .. kevin corrected me on some basic terminology and i plugged the thing right! was easy if u know c is common and not closed ;D
-about the ground loop should i disconnect IEC ground from the case or what should i do? (i think i read somewhere its bad idea tho)..

this is the sound its making so u maybe can judge it :) first part is with it powered off click of power on and general buzzing while its on is the second part.. audio passing while unit is "OFF"  is about the same volume as the noise

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4r6s9r

anyways.. will keep waiting  and looking for answers here thanks a lot!
 
ptron said:
just a question for measuring pins on ic`s and vcas should i do that with vca`s fitted and all in place i guess but what settings should i have ? bypass mode and not passing audio?
depends on what you want to measure. Shouldn't matter measuring DC voltages for pins connecting to supply rails or AC millivolts for measuring remaining ripple voltages on DC supply rails. Measuring AC voltages for audio up to a frequency your meter can handle obviously set for passing audio.

could my problem be something like i didnt plug the jacks right? .. tip is + and ring - right?
Umm, N/es. There is no + or -, but tip connects to hot/in-phase wire, ring to cold/out-of-phase wire and sleve connects to shield/case.

actually if i measure between both legs of the IEC tells me 130V  that could be a problem?
Transformer secondary voltages will read a little higher at your place, but these 130VAC isn't a constant and might change, depending on time of day. Nothing you could easily change without moving to another location/continent.

-the switch i meant was the one i got pictures changing the LED .. kevin corrected me on some basic terminology and i plugged the thing right! was easy if u know c is common and not closed ;D
I'd call it pole :)

-about the ground loop should i disconnect IEC ground from the case or what should i do? (i think i read somewhere its bad idea tho)..
NEVER disconnect safety ground from your case.
You might join DC supply 0V reference voltage with safety ground in ONE single spot (star ground) if it helps better sleep. Making this junction switchable would be called a ground-lift.

this is the sound its making so u maybe can judge it :) first part is with it powered off click of power on and general buzzing while its on is the second part.. audio passing while unit is "OFF"  is about the same volume as the noise
http://www.sendspace.com/file/4r6s9r
Highest peak at AC mains frequency might come from your mains switch wires or from your transformer. The rest might come from missing shield, neons or other radiating gear, inducing to your GSSL with lid off.
 
thanks harpo! i thought disconnecting that was bad idea :D ...

Highest peak at AC mains frequency might come from your mains switch wires or from your transformer. The rest might come from missing shield, neons or other radiating gear, inducing to your GSSL with lid off.

i see 60 hz kinda hum story (which i assume is highest peak ac mains frequency 60hz) and the high frequency kinda passive component behaviour.
and while off there is some highmid frequency buzzing.

so i just got three questions.. (sorry edited more than 3 now)

i thought it might come from transformer but i dont know where to start fixing it... i got bolt/case / furry thing isolating transformer on the bottom/ transformer/ rubber thingy/nut
- could plugging the mains the other way around help somehow? :/ im fishing here not sure how to fix this really.


1 the fact its passing really low volume audio when off dont tell u anything? even when unpluged from the power. and when unplugging the audio input from any side of the cables makes the volume of the noise go louder about 10 db more

2- i tried even moving the switch out of the box and still doing the same noise.. u think i better get shielded cable for the AC connections? if so what kind of gauge i should get to be safe?

3 - about pcb standoffs.. i got the metal ones but i dont have any 0v going to case other than safety.. u think it still could be a ground loop? i tried lifting the pcbs one by one see if one of them was making the noise but no luck..(didnt find necesary to lift SSC board cus no mounting hole has connection to any trace or so it seems..) i got some nylon standoffs maybe i should try them on those 3 pcbs?

4- i got the right fuses (i think) .. they didnt have 200mA i had to get 250 but they got the T on the side .. must be better than 500mA for sure

5 - about + and -... i meant from the GSSL pcb.. + on the output and input goes to hot/tip and - to cold /ring right? i didnt connect 0V from Gssl pcb to xlr or jacks like you said a few weeks before ... i just hooked the pins case to 1 ground and the trs i just went series with xlr hot and cold, case already grounding the sleeve.

im not entirely sure if i get how to fix this .. i checked all the connections and seems to be fine..

NEVER disconnect safety ground from your case.
You might join DC supply 0V reference voltage with safety ground in ONE single spot (star ground) if it helps better sleep. Making this junction switchable would be called a ground-lift.

so this means all and every one of the standoffs on CRC, turbo and GSSL could be making a ground loop?? damn i thought those were meant to be placed with metal standoffs..
Thanks Keith.  It looks like it's rectified twice which may give someone with 15V CT xfmr problems with Voltage drops.  Do you have an 18V xfmr on this?

could this be my problem having 2 rectifiers and having 15Vtrafo?
 
I use the terminology that most electrical control devices use since I do allot of Industrial controls work professionally.  My terminology is more based on relays but generally work the same way for switches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switches

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay
 
WOOOAH seems i fixed it by going to star ground from the positive leg of the meter :D figured it out by fiddling with the croc cables!! damn it sounds nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wow it sounds very very nice :) im really happy with this! :) :) :) :) :)

hiss measuring about -89 db on my analizer, hum about 6db under :) (while off with unbalanced cables on the input)

when its on with no input it shows NO hum... and noise floor starting in
25HZ : -115 to -110db
from then onwards goes up to -93db on 20Khz

measurments done on RME multiface / digicheck

ok noise floor wont change much after i disconnected it so it makes me believe the comps noise floor is almost the same than my soundcard? if so ... damn this is a fine piece of electronic!!!!

 

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