ugh!!!! screw you...

[pucho812]

wanted to pull away from the covid stuff and talk some normal for a minute, hell a good ol pucho rant to boot.  Why do some companies design gear in such a way  so that  basic servicing is nearly impossible?

Pulled apart the studios DBX160S for what should be a quick and easy replacement of a meter bulb that is out. Nothing quick or easy about it.
For starters the design is laid out in such a way that if you need to replace the right meter or bulbs for that meter,  you have to either disassemble the power supply, removing the PSU chassis  so you have access to the meter or you remove the front panel. I assume the  later is what they had in mind.  There is no way to get in there with a screw driver if you just remove the lid. Then once you can gain access, there is a small circuit board that is attached via standoffs to the front panel located right behind the meter that the meter itself is clipped onto and soldered to making it even more of a chore just to get at the bulb/bulbs and replace the bulbs.  After a long time of  what the and why the,  the mission got aborted and a new attempt will be done later after some thinking. What is most frustrating is that there is no mention of what bulbs are used to illuminate the meter at all in any manual I have found online. While I did get help from our DIY family here, I am surprised there is no mention of the bulb type in the manual. It's as if they really want you to send it in for something so minor and silly.  Since at the moment  the unit is working otherwise,  this gets moved to the low priority list. While I do like all the rack gear to illuminate because it looks nice this can wait, or I could easily unhook the bulbs from the left meter so that  it looks the same on both sides.
I should take some photos.
Here is a photo to show what I am referring to.
Clearly can see the PCB behind the meter and how it attaches to the front panel, clearly can see the right meter and not having clearance to get the PCB out to get the meter out to replace the dead bulbs without some major disassembly.

 

[scott2000]

There is no way to get in there with a screw driver if you just remove the lid.

I can't decipher all the description yet but, those right angle screwdriver deals you get with furniture kits etc sometimes can be helpful???

these

 

[JohnRoberts]

I already saw this trend at Peavey late last century. Consumers at POS do not value "repairability" when making either/or purchase decisions. They do not appreciate any extra "hidden" expenses inside the box. When I was over all product management I had many difficult discussions with my loudspeaker product manager. One of his major loudspeaker driver features was ease of repairability, but it is never a good sales pitch to tell customers that your new products will break, although they all do. 

Consumers effectively get what they deserve by rejecting the more expensive products that include the easier to repair feature. Note: this does not mean more expensive products are easier to repair, but they can generally afford to be.

JR 

 

[Chris]

Perhaps a 1/4" Phillips bit (I presume it's Phillips) held by a small socket wrench with 1/4" socket, 1/4" box wrench, or small set of Vise-Grips?

 

[mjrippe]

More expensive products are quite often MORE difficult to repair.  At least the small "boutique" ones, Thermionic Culture, the Cartec THC, and a few others come to mind.  Don't even get me started on the Cartec...

 

[JohnRoberts]

More expensive products are quite often MORE difficult to repair.  At least the small "boutique" ones, Thermionic Culture, the Cartec THC, and a few others come to mind.  Don't even get me started on the Cartec...

Indeed engineering has to pay more attention to repair when servicing a large product mix with long warranties.

That said I perceived a shift in sharper pencil review of hidden features like ease to repair late last century (no doubt driven by price competitiveness with chinese knock offs). When running my engineering group I would meet with the service repair techs roughly once a month. They were not shy about kicking my as_ regarding design shortcomings they encountered.

JR

 

[pucho812]

I can't decipher all the description yet but, those right angle screwdriver deals you get with furniture kits etc sometimes can be helpful???

these

Sorry, basically layout  combined with  roadblocks make  it a chore to do something simple like change a meter bulb.

 

[pucho812]

Perhaps a 1/4" Phillips bit (I presume it's Phillips) held by a small socket wrench with 1/4" socket, 1/4" box wrench, or small set of Vise-Grips?

yeah was thinking about that.  but might just be easier to remove the front faceplate :-\

 

[Tubetec]

http://www.thewheatln2.com/2011/05/12/q-how-many-kerrymen-does-it-take-to-change-a-light-bulb/


Hopefully Ruairi doesnt get mad if he see's this 

 

[pucho812]

Indeed engineering has to pay more attention to repair when servicing a large product mix with long warranties.

That said I perceived a shift in sharper pencil review of hidden features like ease to repair late last century (no doubt driven by price competitiveness with chinese knock offs). When running my engineering group I would meet with the service repair techs roughly once a month. They were not shy about kicking my as_ regarding design shortcomings they encountered.

JR

it's been coming down that way for a long time,  this is a simple bulb replacement, it should not be so extensive. Reminds me of the the spark plugs in my Buddys old car he used to have.  They were on the bottom and almost had to remove the motor to get to them

 

[JohnRoberts]

it's been coming down that way for a long time,  this is a simple bulb replacement, it should not be so extensive. Reminds me of the the spark plugs in my Buddys old car he used to have.  They were on the bottom and almost had to remove the motor to get to them

That is all too common in exotic cars... shoehorn a detroit V8 into a Brit sports car (like the Sunbeam Tiger) , and you have to remove the heater core just to change the plugs.

My car which is far from exotic requires unbolting and jacking up the engine just to change the starter, (I paid somebody else to do that).  It looks like I will have to partially disassemble part of the intake system to do plugs on one side.

JR

PS: back when I was a young puke I had a serious 1/4" socket drive set. I had universal joints and even a spring extension that could work around corners.

 

[pucho812]

That is all too common in exotic cars... shoehorn a detroit V8 into a Brit sports car (like the Sunbeam Tiger) , and you have to remove the heater core just to change the plugs.

My car which is far from exotic requires unbolting and jacking up the engine just to change the starter, (I paid somebody else to do that).  It looks like I will have to partially disassemble part of the intake system to do plugs on one side.

JR

PS: back when I was a young puke I had a serious 1/4" socket drive set. I had universal joints and even a spring extension that could work around corners.

that is serious.
must have been something.

 

[Gold]

yeah was thinking about that.  but might just be easier to remove the front faceplate :-\

It looks like the cabling to the faceplate is long enough to remove the faceplate without undoing anything else. Flip the faceplate up  and it can rest on the top of the chassis..That’s just four screws. Maybe I’m missing something?

 

[pucho812]

It looks like the cabling to the faceplate is long enough to remove the faceplate without undoing anything else. Flip the faceplate up  and it can rest on the top of the chassis..That’s just four screws. Maybe I’m missing something?

I saw that too, I think that might be easiest. Lordy it shouldn't have to be that way.

 

[mjrippe]

I am fighting the other side of the battle as well.  Developing new gear and trying to keep serviceability in mind.  Form vs Function is a huge struggle at times but when you find the right compromise it is very rewarding.

 

[Gold]

I am fighting the other side of the battle as well.  Developing new gear and trying to keep serviceability in mind.  Form vs Function is a huge struggle at times but when you find the right compromise it is very rewarding.

It’s also something that doesn’t necessarily cost more. Just requires some thought and planning.  When it’s done right you can tell someone cared.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It’s also something that doesn’t necessarily cost more. Just requires some thought and planning.  When it’s done right you can tell someone cared.

Not always but there is typically some hidden costs associated with easy repairability.

When I first started designing products at Peavey (mid 80s) I had the luxury of being able to absorb those hidden costs, and didn't have to worry about it. By the 90s price competition made hidden costs that the consumer doesn't appreciate when making POS cost comparisons could result in lost market share.

Design for repairability (an old Peavey tradition) took a back seat to design for manufacturability (ease to assemble, error free).

JR

 

[pucho812]

I can say with certainty that the easiest outboard gear I ever worked on was the Avalon Design stuff.

the chassis was built in such a way that the pcb's wound mount to a frame in the chasis and that frame was attached to the  chassis sides. This made it easy to access the bottom and top of the PCB by just removing the top and bottom lids. The front panel was separate from the chassis and would just bolt on and fit over the pots. The knobs over that. making it easy to replace the panel should you need cosmetic work, and just as easy to replace a pot without having to take it all apart. From there, each pot was soldered  to the pcb's with wires and so were all the connectors.  The PSU had it's own molex  connections so one could disconnect it from the circuit boards and was able to be tested without the audio PCB's as a load. real handy to isolate PSU problems, or audio card problems.

 

[Whoops]

Why do some companies design gear in such a way  so that  basic servicing is nearly impossible?

I think a lot of companies, if not most don't want you to repair the unit.
They want you to buy the new unit after some years

 

 

[pucho812]

I think a lot of companies, if not most don't want you to repair the unit.
They want you to buy the new unit after some years

 

not buying a new unit over a bulb being out