United Twin87 Headbasket Experimentation

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SubSpec

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So, another thread related to 87's got this convo started and I thought I'd make a new thread to keep that one on track. Basics are this, by several assessments the UT Twin87 is an excellent implementation of the 87 circuit with more flexibility than many clones but may be limited in nailing the 87 sound by the headbasket.

United was obviously mindful not to land the Twin in lawsuit territory, and United has said elsewhere that in lieu of the original chiseled basket they sought to make as transparent a basket as possible. I would agree that it is just that, which lends the otherwise 87-ish sound a more open but less forward quality.

Today I got a different project in that has a M-Audio Nova body (thanks again for the ID @Wordsushi) and I decided to attempt to frankenstein it's headbasket on to the Twin. It is just that, definitely not a proper fit, not really even close, but close enough to work for testing.

I could only attach one screw or the other, and opted to use the rear which made the front of the capsule a bit closer to the basket than the rear. This was not necessary I'm sure (and not pictured) but I also wrapped a layer of copper tape around the seam since the mechanical connection was not solid between the body and basket.

Here are some pictures of the ugly thing and some audio samples in following posts.

I have a standard comparison project I use for all mics that come through my hands, it's just one of my songs that I perform a sung (chorus) snippet and rapped (verse) snippet on, same chain, LUFS matched. All the caveats exist, different performances, environmental changes (though not particularly in this case), placement tries to be consistent but is not laser exact, etc...

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Chorus with music

Nova HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment twin87-card-vtg-novahb.wav
Stock HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment twin87-card-vtg.wav
Nova HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment twin87-card-mod-novahb.wav
Stock HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment twin87-card-mod.wav

Chorus acapella

Nova HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment solo-twin87-card-vtg-novahb.wav
Stock HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment solo-twin87-card-vtg.wav
Nova HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment solo-twin87-card-mod-novahb.wav
Stock HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment solo-twin87-card-mod.wav
 
Verse with music

Nova HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment verse-twin87-card-vtg-novahb.wav
Stock HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment verse-twin87-card-vtg.wav
Nova HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment verse-twin87-card-mod-novahb.wav
Stock HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment verse-twin87-card-mod.wav

Verse acapella
Nova HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment solo-verse-twin87-card-vtg-novahb.wav
Stock HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment solo-verse-twin87-card-vtg.wav
Nova HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment solo-verse-twin87-card-mod-novahb.wav
Stock HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment solo-verse-twin87-card-mod.wav
 
Chorus with music

Nova HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment 131099
Stock HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment 131100
Nova HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment 131101
Stock HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment 131102

Chorus acapella

Nova HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment 131103
Stock HB (vintage - cardioid)
View attachment 131104
Nova HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment 131105
Stock HB (modern - cardioid)
View attachment 131106
In all cases, vintage or modern, with the Nova headbasket, the sound has more mids and mid-highs, it's more forward.
This is exactly what I expected.
 
Great experiment! And I think Micolas is correct. You can hear that 87-ish bite in the upper mids now with the chiseled headbasket. Without it, it's very similar to the modded AKG Perception mic where you have the right tone but without that upper mid punch.
So, now the question is... what headbasket would be a better match for modding the UT Twin?
 
Great experiment! And I think Micolas is correct. You can hear that 87-ish bite in the upper mids now with the chiseled headbasket. Without it, it's very similar to the modded AKG Perception mic where you have the right tone but without that upper mid punch.
So, now the question is... what headbasket would be a better match for modding the UT Twin?
This is exactly why I intend to transplant the P420 into the HL-95 body: the forward sound,punch and bite of the U87.
 
This is exactly why I intend to transplant the P420 into the HL-95 body: the forward sound,punch and bite of the U87.
Let us know how that goes. I’d like to so the same but I can’t see how it’ll all work unless a major overhaul is done.
 
One of the problems I had (during half the day I had the microphone before returning it) was the significantly lower output compared to a 'real' U87ai (Output 28 mV/Pa.) Of course in the 'modern' setting.
Also the UT87 sounded 'thin'. (A measurement confirmed this.)
 
...
Also the UT87 sounded 'thin'. (A measurement confirmed this.)
You're right, at least in the modern position, in the posted tests it seemed a bit thin.
In both position(vintage/modern ) seemed as if some frequencies were missing in the medium, medium-high area, spoiling a continuous, beautiful, natural form of the FR.
Thanks for the info.
 
Great experiment! And I think Micolas is correct. You can hear that 87-ish bite in the upper mids now with the chiseled headbasket. Without it, it's very similar to the modded AKG Perception mic where you have the right tone but without that upper mid punch.
So, now the question is... what headbasket would be a better match for modding the UT Twin?
Just ordered an HL-95, we'll see how it works with the Twin.
 
I think you do receive a finished product, and a fine one at that. It's just not what you require for meeting the U-87 sound for whatever reason, probably legal ones as someone has already said. I'm sure he came as close as he could. I respect Chad Kelly and I know he does his best to deliver a quality product. I've seen it too many times to think otherwise.
 
If I buy a microphone for 600 Euro/Dollar, I expect a finished product.
Not a product that I have to modify to make it sound better...
IIRC a colleague in the group bought 2 new Neumann U87ai microphones.
And without hesitation he increased C104 from 47nF to 100nF for richer lows.
(That's exactly what I would do!)
*
I bought a new WA-87r2 for almost 700 euros to modify (but I like how it sounds on my voice and now I have a dilemma 😀)
 
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