What happens to a 12v DC motor when you change the voltage supplied?

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canidoit

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Joined
Apr 6, 2009
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What exactly happens to a motor when you underpower or overpower it?

The motor specs is 12 volts DC rated at 150mamps and 150rpm.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-150RPM-High-Torque-Gear-Box-Electric-Motor-/110873934394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d099fa3a

My speed controller for the motor apparently changes the voltage from 0 to infinity to change the speed sais the person who sold it to me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6V-30V-6A-Reversible-DC-Motor-Speed-Control-PWM-Controller-Switch-for-6V-12V-24V-/130983501191?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7f399d87

Does anyone know what could happen to my motor when I use this speed controller??

Thanks
 
If it is a permanent magnet dc motor then its speed will be roughly proportional to the voltage for a given load. The basic equation fro a permanent magnet motor is:

V = I.R - k.w

Where V is the applied voltage, I is the current through the motor, w is the motor speed and k is a constant that depends on the motor itself. The term -k.w is called the back emf.

Cheers

Ian
 
Thanks Ian for the reply :)

I have emailed the seller if its a permanent magnet dc motor.

Are you able to tell looking at the motor from the link I provided??

Do you know if my set up will damage my motor, speed controller or battery powering the speed controller?

Will it reduce any of the parts I will use in any way, using it this way?

Thanks!
 
Can't really tell from the eBay pic but most small dc motors are permanent magnet types. The controller you linked to is a straightforward PWM type that effectively varies the voltage on the motor. Its range will be from 0V to whatever dc voltage you supply it with. So if you use a 12V supply you will not damage the motor.

Cheers

Ian
 
ruffrecords said:
Can't really tell from the eBay pic but most small dc motors are permanent magnet types. The controller you linked to is a straightforward PWM type that effectively varies the voltage on the motor. Its range will be from 0V to whatever dc voltage you supply it with. So if you use a 12V supply you will not damage the motor.

Cheers

Ian
Ian, I am little confused here, so what happens when I slow down the speed on the controller and the voltage becomes 2 volts to slow down the motor?

It might be a little over my head, so in laymans terms, this setup is OK??

Thanks!
 
There is a link below, it is not the kit you bought but is another low cost PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) motor speed controller.  It includes a schematic and a theory of operation section which is pretty clear and may help. 

I think the idea with PWM is that you don't vary the voltage, you vary the TIME that the voltage is on.  So instead of lowering the voltage from 12V to 2V, you turn the 12V on 1/6th of the time (the so called "duty cycle").  The result is that the motor produces 1/6th of the power that it could if you had "100% duty cycle" meaning on all the time.

This stuff is new to me so correct me Ian if I have this wrong but I am interested in this thread.  I am sort of interested in whether you can get smooth motion from a DC motor using PWM without a capacitor or a big flywheel (I suppose it depends on the frequency of the switching).

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/CKMX033DATA.pdf

Also wiki on PWM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
 
canidoit said:
ruffrecords said:
Can't really tell from the eBay pic but most small dc motors are permanent magnet types. The controller you linked to is a straightforward PWM type that effectively varies the voltage on the motor. Its range will be from 0V to whatever dc voltage you supply it with. So if you use a 12V supply you will not damage the motor.

Cheers

Ian
Ian, I am little confused here, so what happens when I slow down the speed on the controller and the voltage becomes 2 volts to slow down the motor?

It might be a little over my head, so in laymans terms, this setup is OK??

Thanks!

Yes, the speed is roughly proportional to the voltage applied. Apply 12V and it goes twice the speed it does at 6V. At 2V the speed will be one sixth the speed at 12V.

Cheers

Ian
 
bruce0 said:
There is a link below, it is not the kit you bought but is another low cost PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) motor speed controller.  It includes a schematic and a theory of operation section which is pretty clear and may help. 

I think the idea with PWM is that you don't vary the voltage, you vary the TIME that the voltage is on.  So instead of lowering the voltage from 12V to 2V, you turn the 12V on 1/6th of the time (the so called "duty cycle").  The result is that the motor produces 1/6th of the power that it could if you had "100% duty cycle" meaning on all the time.

This stuff is new to me so correct me Ian if I have this wrong but I am interested in this thread.  I am sort of interested in whether you can get smooth motion from a DC motor using PWM without a capacitor or a big flywheel (I suppose it depends on the frequency of the switching).

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/motor/CKMX033DATA.pdf

Also wiki on PWM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
This PWM seems to be everywhere for speed controllers. Hopefully it is smooth and doesnt make the motor jittery. I guess when I receive the parts, I will be able to know then.

The issue I have now, is that all these DIYs motorized sliders are using 30-60rpm for motors and I may have miscalculated my rpm requirements by getting a 150rpm version. Il have to see how it works with my size pulleys.

Thanks people for the responses :)
 
Firstly, with a permanent magnet DC motor, yes the speed is fairly proportional to the voltage, but just like transistors in an audio circuit, there is a band where this linear(ish) relationship exists. if you put 1V on a 12V motor it will probably not turn, as the power developed at that voltage will not be enough to overcome the inertia of the rotor or load. As a ball park figure, you will probably not get any useful controllable motion below about 1/3 of the rated motor voltage. if that.

But this very much depends on the physics of the motor and its load.

And......this is for simple open loop speed control. close the loop with feedback and you can make a PM DC motor turn at 1RPM. But that is a whole different kettle of fish.

Now. PWM.... Lets put this in simple terms, and make analogies with audio. because all the same principles apply.

Think of class D amplifiers. These are just PWM controllers just like for motors. Ill get back to that.

The REASON for PWM: Just like in audio it is all about efficiency. When a transistor is ON or OFF - acting like a switch - it is efficient. it looses virtually no power as heat. all power goes to the load (ON) or no power goes to the load (OFF).

If you simply use a potentiometer, or a transistor in its linear range to vary the voltage to a load (in an analogue or class A style), the surplus power from the supply is wasted as heat from that analogue amplifying (transistor) or attenuating (Pot) device. Think class A amplifiers. They dissipate lots of heat and are inefficient. But they are the most analogue (look up the real meaning of this word) type of amplifier, and hence to most people have sweet tone.

Now, if you have a square wave at a high frequency, and vary the ON / OFF time ratio, you change the average amount of power getting through, but because the device is switching on and off it is wasting no energy as heat. This is PWM...... PULSE (square wave) WIDTH (how wide the pulse is) MODULATION (changing the width)

The critical thing here is the "response time" of the thing you are controlling. A motor or an incandescent lamp has a very slow response time, with a PWM frequency of 20kHz, switching on and off power 20000 times per second to the filament in the lamp, it can not heat up and cool down that quickly, so it just sees the average and settles at a brightness proportional to the average amount of power the controller is letting through. Just like with the motor, it will settle at a speed proportional to the average amount of power the controller is letting through. To drive this concept home... think what would happen if we reduce the PWM frequency to 1Hz? The lamp and the motor CAN react to a signal switching on and off once per second, so you would see it as a flashing light, and how long it is on for each flash is the length of the pulse width.

If you get a simple PWM controller and you have an oscilloscope - have a look at the voltage at your motor terminals. it will be a square wave. (but probably messy due to real world factors, back EMF from the motor, etc.)

So, to bring it back to audio to sum up... Class D amplifiers are just PWM controllers, but the PWM switching frequency is so fast that the average output of the rapidly ON / OFF switching device, is is seen and averaged out by the speaker as a analogue voltage (and there is lots of added filtering and tricks to help) But in the end, there is no analogue amplification in a class D amplifier. just a switch, efficiently switching on and off really really really quickly, and as a result it is very efficient (no heat sinks required as not much heat is produced) and batteries last longer (that is why your phone and MP3 player will have a class D amplifier)

I am sure all you audio guys know this already.......but it is the same as motor control with PWM!

Cheers,

T


 
Thanks for the detailed reply Timothy!

I have noticed that some speed controllers have different frequencies like 500hz, which is the one I decided to purchase and this other device that does it at 15K frequency but yet it produces about the same speed variation from 5%-100%.

Thanks again people :)
 

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