Who are some of the top K87 capsule producers?

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mkh8060

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Hourly rate, material availability, shipping, real estate. If i were to make you a capsule in Norway from scratch it would cost 1000 bucks probably. In case of Tims TC12 it's the construction of the capsule. I actually think it's inexpensive for what it is. Chinese companies or a company like Rode have automated processes that are more consistent and reliable than any dude sitting in basement in EU or USA doing it by hand and charging arm and a leg for it. it's just questionable if they have the right blueprints. Neumann charges because they are Neumann, and they came up with the stuff in the first place. And they should if you ask me. Be aware that in that shootout there is no TSC-2 capsule, only the TSC-1. And that one is not exactly the same.
My understanding is that the TSC-2 is just the double sided version of the TSC-1? The frequency response charts look identical
 

kingkorg

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@soliloqueen I just don't get why so many report their capsules to be so bright. I have to say i havent tested one myself. Would love to. Could be just false reporting as usual.

I love this video, i keep coming back to it. I just feel it's a shame they don't do more varied capsules, or come up with more unique types. Pure mic porn. Explains the cost and consistency part. And why someone in a basement might have an issue replicating the result-

@mkh8060, not the same. Rear diaphragm is not center terminated, nor metalized. That will lead to different response, it just has to. Don't look at those graphs, they are useless, overly smoothed, and probably just copy/pasted as usual.
 

soliloqueen

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plus datasheet FR graphs are uncompensated. They're just for +-dB QC purposes, so they don't need to actually be right, just repeatable enough to show problems.

Check out Neumann's response for the u87.

1642899246937.png

Not accurate , but since they're using a reference using the same uncompensated curve, it's no problem!
 
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mkh8060

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@soliloqueen I just don't get why so many report their capsules to be so bright. I have to say i havent tested one myself. Would love to. Could be just false reporting as usual.

I love this video, i keep coming back to it. I just feel it's a shame they don't do more varied capsules, or come up with more unique types. Pure mic porn. Explains the cost and consistency part. And why someone in a basement might have an issue replicating the result-

@mkh8060, not the same. Rear diaphragm is not center terminated, nor metalized. That will lead to different response, it just has to. Don't look at those graphs, they are useless, overly smoothed, and probably just copy/pasted as usual.
Always have been a big fan of Rode products, have acquired a ton of their stuff throughout the years for filmmaking.
plus datasheet FR graphs are uncompensated. They're just for +-dB QC purposes, so they don't need to actually be right, just repeatable enough to show problems.

Check out Neumann's response for the u87.

View attachment 89028

Not accurate , but since they're using a reference using the same uncompensated curve, it's no problem!
Makes sense, everyone's measuring setup is going to be slightly different so it's hard to compare different measurements from different sources.

Would it be correct to assume Dachman's capsules are from 3U? I might consider it down the line if it is, since it actually is a bit cheaper for me than from 3U/Guosheng directly.

 

soliloqueen

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Dachman's capsules are from 3U

Dachman's capsules are (IIRC)

Series 2: FZ Audio. Great QC, incredible k47 (kingkorg can attest, though the one I sent him was moderately customized). Backplate accuracy issues prevent their k87 from being right
DA Series: 3U.
 

mkh8060

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Dachman's capsules are (IIRC)

Series 2: FZ Audio. Great QC, incredible k47 (kingkorg can attest, though the one I sent him was moderately customized). Backplate accuracy issues prevent their k87 from being right
DA Series: 3U.
Sweet, the DA one was the one I was looking at. Originally was planning to go with 3U, but if it's the same capsule... I save quite a bit... but obviously I'm reconsidering my original plan thanks to the TSC-2 capsule.
 

soliloqueen

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If you are considering a 47 mic in future get one of those @soliloqueen sent me, it is bloody insane!
Woah, thanks dude! I was so sure you were going to tear it apart when I sent it to you given your track record haha. They're not identical to Dachman's. Different capacitance and treble balance over FZ's catalogue capsules. Moving to in-house though.

But back on to topic. Yeah, you could totally get a 3u k87 from Dachman.
 
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mkh8060

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If you are considering a 47 mic in future get one of those @soliloqueen sent me, it is bloody insane!
Will definitely keep that in mind! Probably will after my 87 build itch is resolved.
Woah, thanks dude! I was so sure you were going to tear it apart when I sent it to you given your track record haha. They're not identical to Dachman's. Different capacitance and treble balance over FZ's catalogue capsules.

But back on to topic. Yeah, you could totally get a 3u k87 from Dachman.
Makes me wonder how much they're paying to source from 3U. I can save almost $50 after discount code going with Dachman as opposed to buying straight from 3U... and I'm assuming they are still making some profit after that.
 

soliloqueen

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Will definitely keep that in mind! Probably will after my 87 build itch is resolved.

Makes me wonder how much they're paying to source from 3U. I can save almost $50 after discount code going with Dachman as opposed to buying straight from 3U... and I'm assuming they are still making some profit after that.
3u's volume pricing is half price IIRC
 

soliloqueen

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Ahhh ok, the numbers make sense then.

You guys are some wizards, learned so much from both you and korg.
We've both got big hyperfixations on capsules haha. I started 2021 with $35k wanting to make my own full microphones but I was so unsatisfied with existing capsule offerings that I ran out of money iterating hundreds of times on clone and original capsule designs and never moved on. Literally ran out of money right when I finished the designs too, so they're just sitting here waiting to be made. Infuriating.
 

mkh8060

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We've both got big hyperfixations on capsules haha. I started 2021 with $35k wanting to make my own full microphones but I was so unsatisfied with existing capsule offerings that I ran out of money iterating hundreds of times on clone and original capsule designs and never moved on. Literally ran out of money right when I finished the designs too, so they're just sitting here waiting to be made. Infuriating.
Holy... 35k... that's crazy.

Totally get it though coming from the audiophile world with headphones. The perfect sound is an illusion but not chasing is no fun :)
 

soliloqueen

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Holy... 35k... that's crazy.

Totally get it though coming from the audiophile world with headphones. The perfect sound is an illusion but not chasing is no fun :)
Oh yeah, it drove me crazy to waste that much money too! I was forced to spend it down on something business related by federal law due to conflicts between two different kinds of assistance for my business during the pandemic (due to their own mistake processing my file + accumulating a lump sum for a year while my file sat in purgatory) so this is what I picked to spend it on
 

Recording Engineer

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If I was trying to get closest as possible, I’d probably go with Beesneez, or Tim’s, whenever he gets time to make a batch available. Although, I’ve never heard them myself.

However, I’m not at all interested in trying to remake a classic. I’d rather just buy a real one.

I’ve chosen Luke Audio for my M269c, SPA U67 Mod/ 797 Audio CR998, and non-A U87 -inspired mics.

The first mic mentioned has amazing tone, but I honestly would like it much more open. It has a 5840W in it right now. I’d like a chance to try a few different tubes. The middle mic I mentioned, I used for the first time just a couple weeks ago. I was extremely impressed with the amount and sound of the rejection while in cardioid with a C7 piano just some feet away. I liked it better than a late-90’s U87Ai in that application. The last mic mentioned was way too dark for the vocalist and style of music, the one time I’ve played with it on vocals so far. To be fair, my original thought for it was never for vocals, but for guitar and a mono low drum overhead in omni.

Obviously, I have a different point of view than kingkong.

*Edit*
I should add, if I was going for the perfect combo of good sound and consistency, where that was most important, I’d choose Maiku.
 
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Khron

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I'm planning to build a poctop D87 and have been lurking the forum for a few weeks now. I haven't been able to conclusively determine who makes the best K87 capsule, I have been only able to infer general sentiment people have over time.
"Just in case", you'll wanna keep in mind that if you're going for the Poctop build, you're gonna want a capsule with isolated backplates. Those aren't all that common(?), but i could be wrong.
 

amplexus

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FWIW - I have a poctop U87 with a Heiserman k87/67 and it’s extremely close imho to the old 87’s that I’ve had occasion to use.

I have a 70’s K87 capsule here that i swapped in as a test, and other than being a bit noisy on the rear diaphragm, the front side was very similar to Eric’s.

Of course now i’m curious about this TSC-2…. Might be fun to pick one up and shoot all three out. Certainly cheap enough to be a decent experiment.
 
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mrgrooves666

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My understanding is that he has a flat/smooth capsule designed for that application by varying the backplate hole count. Would that still apply to his standard K87 design?
He actually has 2 versions, normal and dark for all his capsules, excluding M7. I have his normal in a poctop 87 with regular 220 cap and it sounds wonderfull, bright but not harsh. I would definetly reccomend it.
 

mkh8060

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"Just in case", you'll wanna keep in mind that if you're going for the Poctop build, you're gonna want a capsule with isolated backplates. Those aren't all that common(?), but i could be wrong.
Thanks for the heads up, the 3U/Dachman K87 should have isolated backplates/ 4 wires.... I'll have to double check the other options.
He actually has 2 versions, normal and dark for all his capsules, excluding M7. I have his normal in a poctop 87 with regular 220 cap and it sounds wonderfull, bright but not harsh. I would definetly reccomend it.
Excellent, just what I was looking for, a bright, present, but smooth and not harsh sound.
 
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