Why Modern Music Is So Awful
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True brainwashing story. That chant thing is just a trend like any other i hope. But the intellectual thing seems true when following the radio for some time.. :
Interesting that lyrics come down to only 2 people. I also feel like somehow the individual song has lost its value over the last decades caused by the access to thousands of songs through streaming etc.
Interesting that lyrics come down to only 2 people. I also feel like somehow the individual song has lost its value over the last decades caused by the access to thousands of songs through streaming etc.
The Kid
Well-known member
Pretty much confirms what I've felt and known for many years now. Noticed also 12000 dislikes out of 191000 must indicate most other people agree. But then who keeps buying all that crap? lol. I think about this all the time, how the Beatles could write so many amazing, diverse songs, and influence so many styles, and now it's down to rap and whatever. I think what it really comes down to is people being lazy; just like most other things these days, it's always whatever's easiest, and what will sell. Good post, glad to know it wasn't just all in my head!!
The Kid
Well-known member
Speaking of platform delivery, it's funny, right after I posted the previous, I was flipping tv channels and on pbs the program "Airplay the Rise and Fall of Rock Radio" was on. Fascinating.
https://www.theairplaychannel.com/
I don't pay for satellite radio, but it's cool that you can actually have radio the way it used to be, not the same old, same old playlists that bean counters think everybody wants to hear.
But, the thing is, it used to be radio, and then mtv was ALL there was. Now, with internet, I think people are discovering all that great music, and then when you compare it with today's stuff, well, no contest.
I'm sure there' s still great new stuff somewhere, but it's few and far between. I don't claim to know what makes a song great, but I know it when I hear it. And that's why people like Bach are still being listened to hundreds of years after they did their thing.
I saw another fascinating doc couple days ago, "Free to Rock", https://www.freetorockmovie.com/
Great music can do great things!
https://www.theairplaychannel.com/
I don't pay for satellite radio, but it's cool that you can actually have radio the way it used to be, not the same old, same old playlists that bean counters think everybody wants to hear.
But, the thing is, it used to be radio, and then mtv was ALL there was. Now, with internet, I think people are discovering all that great music, and then when you compare it with today's stuff, well, no contest.
I'm sure there' s still great new stuff somewhere, but it's few and far between. I don't claim to know what makes a song great, but I know it when I hear it. And that's why people like Bach are still being listened to hundreds of years after they did their thing.
I saw another fascinating doc couple days ago, "Free to Rock", https://www.freetorockmovie.com/
Great music can do great things!
bluebird
Well-known member
Ha! its funny how homogenized the actual video production is...Its a totally white bread pop video telling us how terrible pop music is. whats up with all the Hallmark card shots of people listening to music on headphones? Lol.
The problem isn't the music at all. Its the consumerism culture we live in. Media companies have bought your attention without you even realizing it. Advertising is so LOUD these days its hard to hear the good stuff behind the wall of shit. But its there...Theres loads of great music behind all the noise.
And honestly, sound, timbre, dynamic range has nothing to do with it. Its the feeling it gives the listener. And nobody can tell someone else what is supposed to make them feel inspired.
Art has to evolve and move forward with culture. If everything still sounded like the 60's today, it would be sooo boring.
The problem isn't the music at all. Its the consumerism culture we live in. Media companies have bought your attention without you even realizing it. Advertising is so LOUD these days its hard to hear the good stuff behind the wall of shit. But its there...Theres loads of great music behind all the noise.
And honestly, sound, timbre, dynamic range has nothing to do with it. Its the feeling it gives the listener. And nobody can tell someone else what is supposed to make them feel inspired.
Art has to evolve and move forward with culture. If everything still sounded like the 60's today, it would be sooo boring.
Thanks for posting. The criticism of today's music industry seems apt. But I don't fully buy into the brainwashing aspect.
There is probably more fast food music being played on the radio today. However, if there's something a person really doesn't like (like a particular dish or driving a car, for instance), chances are low that said person will start liking it, no matter how often exposed.
Radio playing what it plays today could just as well be a reaction to the existence of alternate music outlets. So they have specialised in what 'sells', cos enough people 'like' it.
I tend to believe that probably the majority of listeners today are just as uncritical of what they listen to as people were in say the 1960s or 70s. Although music was probably more' original' back then, simply for lack of precedents.
There sure is more music today, and stuff we truly enjoy has become more difficult to find. But what used to be cassette tapes fans exchanged in the 1980s for example, is called 'channel' on YouTube today etc.
Personally, I stopped looking for new music on the radio almost 20 years ago.
There is probably more fast food music being played on the radio today. However, if there's something a person really doesn't like (like a particular dish or driving a car, for instance), chances are low that said person will start liking it, no matter how often exposed.
Radio playing what it plays today could just as well be a reaction to the existence of alternate music outlets. So they have specialised in what 'sells', cos enough people 'like' it.
I tend to believe that probably the majority of listeners today are just as uncritical of what they listen to as people were in say the 1960s or 70s. Although music was probably more' original' back then, simply for lack of precedents.
There sure is more music today, and stuff we truly enjoy has become more difficult to find. But what used to be cassette tapes fans exchanged in the 1980s for example, is called 'channel' on YouTube today etc.
Personally, I stopped looking for new music on the radio almost 20 years ago.
Bo Deadly
Well-known member
A good indicator of how good music actually is is how well it persists over time. When was the last time you actually heard Happy by Pharrell Williams (not tied to something else like a movie)? Think about all of the stuff from the 90's that is simply never played unless you go looking for the Grunge channel on Music Choice or SiriusXM. Even the bulk of the 80's stuff is largely non-existent unless it's used in a movie (almost always for a nostalgic moment) or as a gimmick in a commercial. But in almost every major city there is a "Classic Rock" radio station playing 50's, 60's and 70's music pop music (minus disco which was less about listening experience and more about the club scene and dancing).
boji
Well-known member
I forget where I read this (almost a truism), but it is said that the music output of a nation is an artifact of its cultural conciets, and is a reliable bellwether when predicting the general state of the culture in the coming years. Which is to say, if you have less Paul Simon, and more Slayer (ok lets keep it trendy- say, Scarlxrd, Glover), means we're all moving closer towards the fetisization of violence and chaos, and away from say, the sensitive ponderings of a Post-Whitman troubadour. What I gather from the video and from plenty of other indicators is that technology is outpacing our ability to interface with it in an intimate and humane way, as evolution and natural selection used to be the only game in town for increasing awareness of the world.
But frankly I've been recording too many tone-deaf artists lately, and it feels like my only job as of late is to make people sound like they have sacrificed time to build up a legitimate talent, but instead accept my 'engineering' as a worthy substitute.
But frankly I've been recording too many tone-deaf artists lately, and it feels like my only job as of late is to make people sound like they have sacrificed time to build up a legitimate talent, but instead accept my 'engineering' as a worthy substitute.
bluebird
Well-known member
I just cut this "Modern Music" artist's record last week...She was with me when I cut the lacquers and was very interested in the process. It was really a great experience.
Loads of talent...far far far from "Awful"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joSc0hOnx3M
Loads of talent...far far far from "Awful"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joSc0hOnx3M
boji
Well-known member
Glad to hear it BB. I can be a negative nancy at times.
gridcurrent
Well-known member
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and the result is, despite more potential buyers:
https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/
check the box to adjust for inflation.
https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/
check the box to adjust for inflation.
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
I read a book awhile back on how songs are constructed. There is something to the "brainwashing" aspect of modern music.
They've discovered that if you play a melody over and over, you eventually like it, even crave it - can't get it out of your head. Even if you don't like it to begin with. Even if it sucks. It's the repetition factor. It's one of the reasons songs have choruses, to make people like the songs. It's marketing, albeit done well it's pretty fab.
The book went on to say that they used science to determine how the rewards center of the brain is affected by music, and with that knowledge construct songs to "make" you like the hits. And you know the hits when you hear them; you can feel it from the first bar almost.
An interesting factor is they said a lot of the "hits" from the last 20 years or so were written using ABBA melodic techniques. There are precious few writing the big hits and they all know each other and use the similar techniques.
Anyway, I love great music like the next guy, and to me nothing beats a great beat and great melody and lyrics. All else is fluff.
They used to say your song needs a hook, but now the thinking is you need tons of hooks everywhere in the music...sometimes it kinda gets me down because if feels like commercialism and not art.
Some of my best songs do not rhyme. I played one of them for an audience and mentioned that the lyrics don't rhyme. One of the old timers, a well known songwriter and musician, pulled me aside and said "your lyrics don't need to rhyme. A good song is a good song!" I always remembered that.
Great forum gang; glad to know y'all and it's fun hearing your ideas.
Mike
They've discovered that if you play a melody over and over, you eventually like it, even crave it - can't get it out of your head. Even if you don't like it to begin with. Even if it sucks. It's the repetition factor. It's one of the reasons songs have choruses, to make people like the songs. It's marketing, albeit done well it's pretty fab.
The book went on to say that they used science to determine how the rewards center of the brain is affected by music, and with that knowledge construct songs to "make" you like the hits. And you know the hits when you hear them; you can feel it from the first bar almost.
An interesting factor is they said a lot of the "hits" from the last 20 years or so were written using ABBA melodic techniques. There are precious few writing the big hits and they all know each other and use the similar techniques.
Anyway, I love great music like the next guy, and to me nothing beats a great beat and great melody and lyrics. All else is fluff.
They used to say your song needs a hook, but now the thinking is you need tons of hooks everywhere in the music...sometimes it kinda gets me down because if feels like commercialism and not art.
Some of my best songs do not rhyme. I played one of them for an audience and mentioned that the lyrics don't rhyme. One of the old timers, a well known songwriter and musician, pulled me aside and said "your lyrics don't need to rhyme. A good song is a good song!" I always remembered that.
Great forum gang; glad to know y'all and it's fun hearing your ideas.
Mike
Phrazemaster
Well-known member
Also I get bummed at the devaluation of music itself - songs for $.99 indeed! It's a general trend in the devaluation of human capital, intellectual and otherwise. We all know if we want to hear a popular song we just jump on Youtube and there it will be. Yet for an artist like me it can take months, to years, to perfect a song. $.99?
I notice this trend also in the book market; so many titles on Amazon are also super cheap, some free or $0.99 as well.
I honestly do believe the AI revolution is happening, and most are asleep. I've seen some AI art that is mind blowing, some creepy, some downright disturbing. But the point is, they do program AIs to make art - even heard one that converted one musical style to another.
This technology is going to improve to the point where AIs will create venerable works of art. It may be decades, but it will happen. An AI beat the best human Go player - a person who had spent his lifetime learning the game - and the AI beat him. The AI's training? It was given the rules, and then it played against itself for 4 hours. Yes, 4 hours. And then it beat the most accomplished human in the world. They say that Go has more possibilities than stars in the sky. They also said that humans will be "studying the AI's moves for YEARS TO COME" after the competition. The AI had synthesized new moves never before seen or thought of.
In any case, keep playing. It's for us humans anyway.
For now.
Mike
I notice this trend also in the book market; so many titles on Amazon are also super cheap, some free or $0.99 as well.
I honestly do believe the AI revolution is happening, and most are asleep. I've seen some AI art that is mind blowing, some creepy, some downright disturbing. But the point is, they do program AIs to make art - even heard one that converted one musical style to another.
This technology is going to improve to the point where AIs will create venerable works of art. It may be decades, but it will happen. An AI beat the best human Go player - a person who had spent his lifetime learning the game - and the AI beat him. The AI's training? It was given the rules, and then it played against itself for 4 hours. Yes, 4 hours. And then it beat the most accomplished human in the world. They say that Go has more possibilities than stars in the sky. They also said that humans will be "studying the AI's moves for YEARS TO COME" after the competition. The AI had synthesized new moves never before seen or thought of.
In any case, keep playing. It's for us humans anyway.
For now.
Mike
john12ax7
Well-known member
For me a big problem in modern music is that things are very homogenized. Even in less mainstream genres like rock and metal. Everything is quantized, pitch corrected, ultra limited, amp sims on everything, drum samples on everything. Some cool songs being written but the production makes everything sound the same.
Everyone wants to blame digital downloads. But I think digital recording techniques have ruined things just as much.
The stuff that does sell is even worse. May just be a reflection of society. It seems you are better off learning computers than attending a conservatory if you want a living as a musician. It's the age of laptop music.
Everyone wants to blame digital downloads. But I think digital recording techniques have ruined things just as much.
The stuff that does sell is even worse. May just be a reflection of society. It seems you are better off learning computers than attending a conservatory if you want a living as a musician. It's the age of laptop music.
Bo Deadly
Well-known member
I actually think that it would be better if there were a system of metering instead. Meaning all content, music, movies, photos, whatever is accessible to everyone. Everyone can upload anything and download anything. But the content is identified and attributed to an account and all access is metered at a rate something like $0.0001 per kilobyte. So people don't have to be bothered with purchasing content individually from different services and theft is largely unnecessary as long as the rate is cheap enough. So at that rate, depending on the bitrate desired, it might only cost $0.05 to listen to a song but that is for just listening to it once. So if the song is actually good and they listen to it a lot, the artist ends up getting paid more accordingly. According to iTunes I've listened to 'Losfer Words (Big O'rra)' 127 times so over time I would end up paying $6.35 for just that one song.Phrazemaster said:
And I heard that in some places they even use music for torture
;D Really, I'm just kidding. But do you happen to remember the book author and title?
I read "This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession" by Daniel J. Levitin, and methinks there's mention of it too.
..........
A different, rather radical stance (post-Internet) comes from Steve Albini (article & keynote speech), a contoversial and outspokenly left-field musician and recording engineer. Well, he doesn't explicitly touch on the subject of why 'modern music is bad' -- but maybe he does indirectly by explaining why the 'music industry' is and has been 'bad'. Even without having to subscribe to everything Albini says, it might be interesting in this context.
Albini also says that 'pop music is for children and idiots'.
Well, if that is true, then I love being a childish retard
Article in The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albini-at-face-the-music-how-the-internet-solved-problem-with-music
Keynote speech on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz_CPzuwSk4
You mentioned the "brainwashing" aspect, Phrazemaster. I found this to be true. I go to the gym where they constantly play top 40 music, over and over again. And I'll be damned, after a while, I started tolerating that stuff... It's disgusting. :-\
I read a recent article about Rite-aid playing Barry Manilow music outdoors to discourage loiterers, (it also discourages neighbors).
It is the natural order of things to not embrace new, different things (probably kept our caveman ancestors alive longer). At one time the Beatles were the new "long hair" music. Before them Elvis, before him Bill Haley and the Comets, etc....
I can't explain the physiological mechanism but the brain likes familiar things. Some songs become more popular after multiple auditions (the concept behind the payola scandal to pay for airplay to sell more records.
If you listen to classical music most long orchestral pieces repeat a common melodic theme, by the end of symphony that tune is an old friend (sometimes that melody is borrowed from some even older folk music making it instantly familiar).
There are far more talented people in the world than ever make it to the big show. I recall thinking back in the 80's when small format tape, and bedroom recording systems dramatically reduced the cost and increased access to making our own near professional recordings. Now that trend has not only continued but access is even easier/cheaper. We are in the golden age for ease of publishing music, production values are not so golden.
Of course access to DIY recording does not insure a successful result. In fact the reduced friction pretty much guarantees more inferior product will come out the end of that pipe. Talent still matters, hard work, and a touch of good luck (in that order). But what would I know? :
JR
It is the natural order of things to not embrace new, different things (probably kept our caveman ancestors alive longer). At one time the Beatles were the new "long hair" music. Before them Elvis, before him Bill Haley and the Comets, etc....
I can't explain the physiological mechanism but the brain likes familiar things. Some songs become more popular after multiple auditions (the concept behind the payola scandal to pay for airplay to sell more records.
If you listen to classical music most long orchestral pieces repeat a common melodic theme, by the end of symphony that tune is an old friend (sometimes that melody is borrowed from some even older folk music making it instantly familiar).
There are far more talented people in the world than ever make it to the big show. I recall thinking back in the 80's when small format tape, and bedroom recording systems dramatically reduced the cost and increased access to making our own near professional recordings. Now that trend has not only continued but access is even easier/cheaper. We are in the golden age for ease of publishing music, production values are not so golden.
Of course access to DIY recording does not insure a successful result. In fact the reduced friction pretty much guarantees more inferior product will come out the end of that pipe. Talent still matters, hard work, and a touch of good luck (in that order). But what would I know? :
JR
Yes, although 'tolerating' is not the same as 'liking'. And I doubt (hope not) you will start 'craving' it.
'Familiarity' and 'laziness' (maybe also 'lack of time') as arguments why people listen to 'awful' music convince me more. It's way easier to switch on the radio or hook onto an online music stream service, which bring 'it' on, than actively searching for music that we really enjoy.
Not many people want to listen to the same music for all of their entire lives. So 'new' music has to come from somewhere...
