Words

[JohnRoberts]

Seriously, how many people here have been inside a library lately (at least 50 years for me)?

The dewey decimal system was published back in 1876. I doubt that modern electronic media is restricted by old physical paper organizational systems.

This just looks to me like rabble rousers searching for new stuff to cancel. Eventually these people will find themselves standing in a circle pointing at each other (themselves).

There is so much more important stuff to be concerned about (IMO).

JR

 

[user 37518]

Seriously, how many people here have been inside a library lately (at least 50 years for me)?

The dewey decimal system was published back in 1876. I doubt that modern electronic media is restricted by old physical paper organizational systems.

This just looks to me like rabble rousers searching for new stuff to cancel. Eventually these people will find themselves standing in a circle pointing at each other (themselves).

There is so much more important stuff to be concerned about (IMO).

JR

Do I dare to ask what are their claims about the Dewey Decimal System that makes it racist?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Do I dare to ask what are their claims about the Dewey Decimal System that makes it racist?

why open that can of worms... I think I already shared that the original complaint was that there weren't enough classification numbers allocated to non-western literature.

Another complaint was raised in this thread that I have a problem with "trans" people.

There is pretty wide gap between saying that the dewey decimal system is inadequate to categorize all modern literature and that therefore it must be racist, but that appears to be the argument.

JR

PS; If I lived in CA I'd vote for Caitlyn Jenner she seems to have sensible policy ideas. BUT I would never live in CA.

 

[Icegoldnixon]

why open that can of worms... I think I already shared that the original complaint was that there weren't enough classification numbers allocated to non-western literature.

Another complaint was raised in this thread that I have a problem with "trans" people.

There is pretty wide gap between saying that the dewey decimal system is inadequate to categorize all modern literature and that therefore it must be racist, but that appears to be the argument.

JR

PS; If I lived in CA I'd vote for Caitlyn Jenner she seems to have sensible policy ideas. BUT I would never live in CA.

I have not made my point successfully I think. When language changes, it is usually to accommodate some phenomenon that old words language did not account for. For trans/non-binary folks, it's the fact that someone who gives birth might not want to be called a "mother". Hence the "birthing person" thing. We are trying to accommodate this previously under-represented group of people.

So when folks reject this new piece of language, they are disagreeing with the need for this accommodation. There are of course good-faith arguments that a certain new piece of vocab is unnecessary. For instance, I think the "birthing person" thing is silly because we already have a gender-neutral word that works: Parent!

We can just say "Happy Parent's Day" if we really want to be inclusive. But often when there are complaints about new language, the underlying premise is that people don't want to be inclusive. If someone says "I have given birth, but I do not want to be called a mother." and the reply is "Sorry, you're a mother because mothers are people who give birth.", that is an express disagreement with what that person is saying about themselves.

When you disagree with someone about their own identity, then I feel comfortable saying that you have a problem with them (on some level). You either think their self-image is faulty/deluded, or that they are not important enough for you to adapt your language. This might not be an anti-them stance, but it isn't really a pro-them one either. If you disagree with my statements here, I'm very interested in hearing your viewpoint. I'm certainly not interested in "cancelling" anyone.

 

[user 37518]

I have not made my point successfully I think. When language changes, it is usually to accommodate some phenomenon that old words language did not account for. For trans/non-binary folks, it's the fact that someone who gives birth might not want to be called a "mother". Hence the "birthing person" thing. We are trying to accommodate this previously under-represented group of people.

So when folks reject this new piece of language, they are disagreeing with the need for this accommodation. There are of course good-faith arguments that a certain new piece of vocab is unnecessary. For instance, I think the "birthing person" thing is silly because we already have a gender-neutral word that works: Parent!

We can just say "Happy Parent's Day" if we really want to be inclusive. But often when there are complaints about new language, the underlying premise is that people don't want to be inclusive. If someone says "I have given birth, but I do not want to be called a mother." and the reply is "Sorry, you're a mother because mothers are people who give birth.", that is an express disagreement with what that person is saying about themselves.

When you disagree with someone about their own identity, then I feel comfortable saying that you have a problem with them (on some level). You either think their self-image is faulty/deluded, or that they are not important enough for you to adapt your language. This might not be an anti-them stance, but it isn't really a pro-them one either. If you disagree with my statements here, I'm very interested in hearing your viewpoint. I'm certainly not interested in "cancelling" anyone.

WOKE ALERT!!!!
WOKE ALERT!!!!
WOKE ALERT!!!!

THIS IS NOT A DRILL! DO NOT ENGAGE, I REPEAT, DO NOT ENGAGE!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I started this thread as an allusion to the new administrations funny business redefining words, not unlike the classic "1984" scifi government newspeak.

I wonder if wokeness can reach a critical mass where like a black hole it sucks everything remotely pleasant in and destroys it... (are "black" holes racist?).

JR

 

[user 37518]

(are "black" holes racist?).

JR

Definitely, they are way ahead of you, its cancellation is scheduled for Jan 2022 on Stephen Hawking's birthday... Although he will not be canceled because that would be discrimination against the differently abled, HOWEVER, the WOKE jury is still out on any definitive answer about the gender of his computer voice, which is very important because if its found that the gender of his computer voice is not CIS male, Hawking might become the first person to be considered non-binary by proxy! we would have to invent a whole different set of pronouns!

But wait, it gets better! after his gender is decided, there will be a committee to discuss the race of his computer voice, so he might also become trans-racial by proxy! Which could set him free of all of his white priviledge! WE ARE LIVING IN EXCITING TIMES!

 

[Icegoldnixon]

You guys are being so ridiculous, I swear. You'd rather make up things to be mad about than try and understand the world (and people) around you. Kinda sad man...

 

[user 37518]

You guys are being so ridiculous, I swear.

Yeah because "birthing person" is not ridiculous at all....

 

[living sounds]

Can we please not call abuse (and other) victims "survivors", unless their lives were actually at stake?

I get it that people don't want to call themselves a victim (though by defintion, in this constellation, it is what they are). So use the word "affected", for example.

In earlier times people frequently used euphemisms to make things not look as bad as they were. Nowadays the opposite often seems to be the case. Should we call them "dramatisms"?

 

[JohnRoberts]

They are painting with words.

JR

 

[living sounds]

They are painting with words.

JR

Yes, and they are free to do that. But when news outlets adopt "painting with words" over clear and objective language I find it troubling. It's part of a bigger trend, as I am sure you are aware...

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am irritated by newspaper headlines that are not even supported by the body of the article. Sometimes the article even contradicts the headline. But the damage has been done, the reader has been teed up by the headline toward some editor's world view. I see this often in climate articles, but suspect it is normal industry practice across the board. Inflammatory headlines used to be crafted to sell newspapers from a news stand, now they mainly serve as click bait.

JR

 

[living sounds]

Yes, and even the most legitimate news outlets engage in these clickbait headlines now....

 

[cyrano]

Not really new.

Look at wartime press reporting. Even before WWI, the press liked to engage in propaganda and sometimes (usually for lack of real news) in the most unlikely stories.

Just check summer editions (July - August) and you'll find ample examples.

 

[Tubetec]

Interesting convo the other day with an old buddy , he's married and settled down the last few years .
He constantly gets flack from the wife for simply not being interested in the usual gay male themed TV dramas or films that seem to becoming ever more common in this day and age . Apparently this new woke generation seems to think we should be force fed queerdom and like it or were badged homophobic .

Im quite happy to delve deeper into this subject if any of our new 'woke' crowd end up with their knickers in a twist over what I'm saying

 

[JohnRoberts]

Interesting convo the other day with an old buddy , he's married and settled down the last few years .
He constantly gets flack from the wife for simply not being interested in the usual gay male themed TV dramas or films that seem to becoming ever more common in this day and age . Apparently this new woke generation seems to think we should be force fed queerdom and like it or were badged homophobic .

Im quite happy to delve deeper into this subject if any of our new 'woke' crowd end up with their knickers in a twist over what I'm saying

I'd be careful about inviting attention from the social justice warriors (wokadile), but since you raise the subject. I watch way too many Hallmark romcoms. I even made up a drinking game around all the cliches and iconic virtue signaling examples included in every movie. Then there was one new movie several weeks ago. I didn't notice it at first but hours after watching them kiss at exactly 1 hour 59 minutes in, I realized there was not one single virtue signaling box checked off.

It was almost like time traveling back to the movies they made only a few years ago. Of course the next week's movie returned to checking all the identity boxes, the new normal.

JR

PS: The new TV season is just starting up and it can be dizzying how they have to tag all the bases in their first episode.

 

[JohnRoberts]

For more funny business, the administration is trying to manipulate news. The FAA has shut down drone flights capturing images of migrants clustered under a bridge/overpass in Del Rio, TX. Reportedly a new surge of Haitian migrants has pushed the crowd up over 10,000. Fox news was about the only network regularly covering the border crisis (oops I mean challenge).

It is hard to trust a government that works to conceal the facts on the ground. It usually isn't this obvious.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

Thanks for the reply John ,
I dont use mainstream social media , of course posting what i said in somewhere like FB would probably be like opening the door to the devil or a red rag to a bull . Luckily here we seem to be a more independently spirited bunch ,much less of a pack mentality . Its funny how talk radio and TV shows have become watered down , less risqué for fear of a backlash via computer based social media platforms , even comedy as a vehicle for change or to question the status quo is more or less dead . Politicians started out thinking social media would be their best friend and courted the FB Twitter Google etc , I think there only just realising now it will just as soon as eat them alive and spit their bones out , in fact its almost inevitable the technology will ultimately be their undoing . Were seeing a slew of accusations of high level governmental leaks here in Ireland lately , theres very little if any evidence , but how can we be sure the likes of Pegasus spyware and the Israeli secret service arent playing puppet master by proxy.

Drones are a classic example of a dual use technology , benign recreational users end up penalised because of the more nefarious purposes they can be used for . One example here is the use of drones to smuggle heroin into prisons , even in war their use isnt without potential downsides , I note tonight an uncharacteristic apology on behalf of the US military for a drone strike in which 10 civilians were killed in Afganistan , the use of FDA powers to ground news drones on American soil only serves to flag up the technological dichotomy were in as a species.

 

[cyrano]

It's starting to smell like a retirement home in here...