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WTB: Western Electric 111C or similar audio transformers

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weiss

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
1,436
Location
Germany
I want to build a passive "color box" kind of thing. Therefore looking to find some usable transformers for this project.
If you have something similar or more common to offer, let me know  :)
 
WE111C are a wrong and expensive choice for this.  Despite much internet folklore they are all but invisible in the audio path, and I've spent months with them available in a mastering chain hitting them at all levels on many genres with great converters.

I'm guessing you could get them to misbehave more by using not ideal out/in impedances but I would look elsewhere.

For good value I liked what the cheaper steel Cinemags did, a little fluffy for mastering but fun in a recording and mixing scenario.



 
Yep, they do a thing but it's pretty subtle.  Not what I think of when I think 'color box'.  Now those HS-56/66 as used on Pultecs, those things are a fluffy color box.
 
ruairioflaherty said:
WE111C are a wrong and expensive choice for this.  Despite much internet folklore they are all but invisible in the audio path, and I've spent months with them available in a mastering chain hitting them at all levels on many genres with great converters.

I'm guessing you could get them to misbehave more by using not ideal out/in impedances but I would look elsewhere.

For good value I liked what the cheaper steel Cinemags did, a little fluffy for mastering but fun in a recording and mixing scenario.

thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of that!
What cinemags are you refering to?


EmRR said:
Yep, they do a thing but it's pretty subtle.  Not what I think of when I think 'color box'.  Now those HS-56/66 as used on Pultecs, those things are a fluffy color box.

I would love to try them one day but unfortunately they aren't low-budget although the sowter 3603 sounds like a possible alternative ?
 
EmRR said:
Yep, they do a thing but it's pretty subtle.  Not what I think of when I think 'color box'.  Now those HS-56/66 as used on Pultecs, those things are a fluffy color box.

would these also work for that purpose?
 
weiss said:
would these also work for that purpose?

Probably, but no telling what response  or headroom is there, they look pretty small.  That vendor is chronically overpriced on everything too; it's one thing if you can say WHAT you're selling, but generally there's no info.  .
 
weiss said:
would these also work for that purpose?

I found this....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwibwMjYlJvjAhXTLs0KHd_3BDcQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.technicalaudio.com%2Fpdf%2FElectronics_Catalog_Extracts%2FFreed_Transformer_Co_1966_REM_E30.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3Cy0PojoSi9EYQ28NbzdFj
 

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scott2000 said:
I found this....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwibwMjYlJvjAhXTLs0KHd_3BDcQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.technicalaudio.com%2Fpdf%2FElectronics_Catalog_Extracts%2FFreed_Transformer_Co_1966_REM_E30.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3Cy0PojoSi9EYQ28NbzdFj

yeah!! i found the same, would work in theory..
 
I went for two utc A20. If you ever built something similar, how does your unit/box look?
 
I want with two Stancor WF-30s, which are pretty much the same as your utc's.  I used the little box in the attached pic.
 

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craigmorris74 said:
I want with two Stancor WF-30s, which are pretty much the same as your utc's.  I used the little box in the attached pic.

Looking great :) First time i hear about the wf30!
Haven't seen rack units yet. Are boxes more practical?
 
weiss said:
Looking great :) First time i hear about the wf30!
Haven't seen rack units yet. Are boxes more practical?
I wish I would have put mine in a 1u rack with my passive monitor controller and direct box transformers to save space, but most that I've seen have been in little boxes like mine. 

These transformers make almost every individual source sound better when tracking.
 
craigmorris74 said:
I wish I would have put mine in a 1u rack with my passive monitor controller and direct box transformers to save space, but most that I've seen have been in little boxes like mine. 

These transformers make almost every individual source sound better when tracking.

Good to hear! Really excited to try this out. :)
 
mjrippe said:
https://analogaudiorepair.com/2013/06/29/transformer-saturation-box-wutc-davens/

yeah! thanks. Already checked it out  :)
Does it make sense to use a pot when only using one transformer per channel?
 
weiss said:
yeah! thanks. Already checked it out  :)
Does it make sense to use a pot when only using one transformer per channel?

Yes, if you want to send a hot signal to saturate the xfmr.  A Daven attenuator is made for specific impedances -600/600 in this case.  You can use a pot after the xfmr, but it may change the response.
 
WE111C are a wrong and expensive choice for this. Despite much internet folklore they are all but invisible in the audio path, and I've spent months with them available in a mastering chain hitting them at all levels on many genres with great converters.

I'm guessing you could get them to misbehave more by using not ideal out/in impedances but I would look elsewhere.

For good value I liked what the cheaper steel Cinemags did, a little fluffy for mastering but fun in a recording and mixing scenario.
Just going to chime in here that I and many mix/mastering engineers disagree with this opinion about WE111c being invisible. Simply not our experience, so I think it's worth contributing that push back to this thread.
 
Just going to chime in here that I and many mix/mastering engineers disagree with this opinion about WE111c being invisible. Simply not our experience, so I think it's worth contributing that push back to this thread.

They are not totally invisible (which is why I used the phrase "all but invisible") but they are very very clean at typical working levels. At levels beyond what most converters can deliver they will leave more of a footprint but at that point everything else in your analog chan would be hanging on for dear life.

Like most things in audio I think there is a lot of motivated reasoning happening with these transformers, they are expensive and a little rarer so they must be great ... right?

I have a pair and wanted them to be a thing but they weren't. There are a lot of other transformers I would reach for first if I was looking for color.

That said my bar is very high, the best I've heard were the transformers in my OG Magic Death Eye - that sense of weight, tone and body without getting fluffy.
 
We should probably move this to another forum to discuss.

Something I should add is that we're assuming we're actually meeting the same thing - a WE111C. That transformer was produced over a long period of time and there may be variations in cores or winding that while meeting original spec make a difference in how we perceive things.

Also, any transformer will be sensitive to source impedance etc so any variation there will create differences in subjective experience.
 
Same experience with the 111C … had to hit them crazy crazy hard.
I lended them to a mastering engineer pal here in Paris, the guy is no noob (Grammy for the last Daft Punk album, among other records) and he came to the same conclusion also and gave them back to me.
Let them fetch crazy prices for audiofools and look for other transformers ;)
 

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