I hate metalworking

owel said:

2. No neckties, necklaces, or bracelets too.

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I want to add to this, the great, yet potentially suicidal invention, the Lanyard! I love having my keys on one so I don't loose them and they bulk up my pockets, BUT a BAD move when using ANY kind of machinery and or doing any kind of electrical work, for fairly obvious reasons...

The possibility of gloves getting caught by the drill head is as remote as flying to Mars in your pyjamas.

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Quote of the day!

Matt

My God! Jeff.. I have just clicked on that link. What a horrific way to die. And on a machine that size there are serious safety issues. It is a very common reaction that the lathe operators do by putting their hands on the stock to slow it down after turning the machine off. And if the clothing gets caught the result can be like on those pictures.

Back in 79 when I was in my last year at technical college, for the second term we had to take an industrial placement. I ended up in Fiat factory that manufactured trucks. One of the metal work students got his fingers smashed under the press. I saw that too and I thought it was horrific but that picture is just...Oh dear.

Anyhow how guys. Let's be careful with the machinery.

That accident is some serious $hit, as well as the idiots commenting on that horrific accident.

I would add that you should never use power tools when tired or imbibing.

My first house had a deck built by a guy who butted all the boards together, ramping all rain water into the basement.  The work and wood were otherwise good, so I rented a 12" circular saw, bought a few blades and started ripping 1/4" off each 20 foot span of 2x4.  After many boards and 6 hours I started getting tired and debated stopping for the day.  The decision was made when the thing hit a nail, one of many that day, and flew out back between my legs.  Returned the saw and left the last few boards.  Luckily I started at the house, and, just lucky I was still in a proper position.

Nuff respec' to all power tools,
Mike

General build safety practices should have it's own Sticky thread. I mean, after all this is DIY which not only entails the electronics part of gear... but all of this fine other stuff too. All of this other stuff can be very dangerous if not life threatening.

You know, for the lathes, table saws, mills, why not use a foot cut-off switch? Meaning, to turn on, you must put your foot on the switch AND then turn on the machine via it's normal switch. If you remove your foot, the machine stops. If you put your foot back on, you can't re-start the machine until you turn off then on the normal manual switch.

If you guys didn't go to the stopsaw website and look at the video that thing is awesome!!

jsteiger said:

General build safety practices should have it's own Sticky thread. I mean, after all this is DIY which not only entails the electronics part of gear... but all of this fine other stuff too. All of this other stuff can be very dangerous if not life threatening.

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For sure.

When you're scoring a PCB use a good thick straight edge that your utility knife won't jump over.

Warning:  A little gross

http://hairballaudio.com/finger.jpg

It grew back nice.

Mike

Sahib

I am surprised that you advocate the use of gloves.  In the tuition I received in metalworking in the UK, they always told me to avoid using gloves. 

I even checked on the Health & Safety Executive site last night trying to clarify the UK guidelines for drill press use.  Although I didn't manage to find any specific instructions I did read about a case study in one of there downloadable leaflets, which was a text book example of what Jeff & others are saying.  The worker had his hand drawn into the chuck of a drill press by his glove being caught, & he receieved bad incapacitating injuries to his forearm & hand.

But like you say it's your preogative to agree to disagree.

Rob,


I am not relly advocating anything but simply looking into the issue from a safety point of view. As I gave my example of the circular table saw the health executive would probably say that the protective guard over the table saw should be on at all times. Insurance companies also say that too. Now try to cut a strip of 1 or 1.5mm, in fact for all that matters 2-3 mm sheet material in strips. How dangerous si that. It is suicidal. Back in 1986 when I worked for Thorp Modelmakers in London a guy actually got tips of his right hand finger completely shaven because of that. Well, according to the health and safety the saw was completely complient.

Now, in terms of gloves. They protect your hands if you are working particularly with metal. That guy who received injuries. Ask why. Why did he come into contact with the rotating part of a machinery? In the first place he should not have done it under any circumstances. There is a danger of  your hand get caught by a rotating machine with your watch on, with your longs sleve shirt on, with your ring on. In fact without anything on if if you touch to a moving part. Fundamental is that you should not be touching moving or rotating parts of the machinery in the first place. Then where is the danger of wearing gloves?

Pardon me if I missed it, but neither side has advocated what type of gloves. Of course, big, loose fitting gloves would be a safety issue. Maybe Cemal is referring to those rubber coated, tight fitting gloves? They are nearly like an extra layer of skin.

Maybe like these? http://www.northernsafety.com/Product/121-1487/Atlas-Fit-Rubber-Palm-Coated-Hand-Protection-Gloves

sahib said:

"...you should not be touching moving or rotating parts of the machinery in the first place. Then where is the danger of wearing gloves? "

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But the point is that people do things they should not do, even when they know better. It's that thoughtless moment when you are tired or hypnotized by the work and you reach out to brush a bit of insulation off a live wire or flick a bit of metal away so you can see the hole being drilled. You know it's wrong even as you watch yourself doing it! The question is, how severe will the penalty be for making that mistake?

So, touching a rotating drill bit may be rare, but the potential for harm is so much greater if you are wearing gloves that it makes no sense to wear them. There is also no need to wear gloves while actually drilling the hole. You may wear gloves while handling the part and setting up to drill the hole or cleaning it afterward, but the piece should be well clamped, with only one hand on the feed wheel as the part is drilled.

The rationale I've heard for wearing gloves is to prevent a spinning piece of metal that breaks free from your grip from slashing your hand. Holding the part by hand is a bad practice to begin with.

Maybe a tight fitting glove is less likely to get caught, but any glove (even latex takes a few seconds to rip, I understand) will wrap around the rotating bit and tend to pull the hand in. Flesh is supposed to just tear.

I know that workers in commercial shops tend to do what's efficient even if that means skirting the safety rules. They have their own understanding of risk/benefit. Nevertheless, occasional (um, all) users of power tools should follow a clear set of best practices to minimize the harm that can occur when inevitable accidents happen.

You are right Jeff, may be we should have identified  the type of glove.

As I mentioned on my previous post if you are wearing gloves that is torn with bits sticking out and string dangling down then obviosuly it is totally dangerous. Same goes for wowen gloves. But there is no reason why one should not wear rubber gloves. You can also wear tight suede gloves. But I will again stress that whether you wear gloves or not you should not be touching the moving parts of a machinery in the first place. So that alone removes any possible danger that would normally come from a moving part of a machine.


First identify where the danger is. It is not difficult to understand that anybody hurt from the moving part of a machine received it because of their own error. That horrific example you gave says it all. The operator's clothes got caught. Why? Because he probably leaned over the lathe with lose clothes.  I might be wrong but that is exactly what the picture tells me. Same goes for any person that received injury because the glove caught on the machine. He she should not have been in contact with the moving part of the machine in the first place. But we know how most people work. They hold the stock of a lathe to slow it down. They try to tighten the chuck of the drill by holding it because they can't be bothered using a chuck key. If you are wearing a glove it may get caught. But you know what, if there was a bit of swarf stuck on the chuck and you put your hand on it, it will tear the flesh off your palm. But if you had the gloves the damage would be much less. Or for some very unusual reason you had to hold a metal part with sharp edges and the drill bit got stuck and the part violently moved. Is it o.k to receive injury because you shouldn't be wearing gloves? Or you are working on a manual friction welding machine, which is pretty much a lathe. What are you going to do, not wear gloves?

I hope this does not sound like a rant and I am certainly not advicing against health and safety rules. But the rules sometimes do not take a particular application into account. It can not and that is why they are general rules. Each and every time you have to asses the risk. And as on the examples I have given above the health and safety rule can go straight against the very safety that it is suppose to provide.

sahib said:

That horrific example you gave says it all. The operator's clothes got caught. Why? Because he probably leaned over the lathe with lose clothes.

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He was clearly wearing a sweater. Why was he wearing a sweater? Because the company owners are too cheap to heat the workspace.

That is one possible factor. I do not wish to make further comments on that accident. It is too upsetting. But no matter what the reasons are I do not wish it to even my enemy (which I have none).

Those 'twisted' photos are beyond disturbing. Of course the warning to not click on the link makes it even harder to resist clicking on the link. I'm totally nauseous now. I haven't felt like this since my friend made me watch "Irreversible" on the sole charge that it was banned from Blockbuster Video stores.

Sorry guys. It is an eye opening thing though isn't it. Staying cognizant is hard sometimes especially with repeat, mundane tasks.

I don't mean that I never took risk but I have always been careful with the machinery and also warned people working for me. Obviously there were incidents that were out of my control. For example I always warned the guys to be patient on cutting bigh chunks of material on the circular saw. Cut may be 5mm at a time. Raise the blade again, cut another 5mm etc.

Once  I heard a big thump, but carried on working upstairs in the office. Then I could hear my bro coming up the stairs slowly, he walked into the office I turned around, he was looking totally blank and before I said anything he collapsed. He tried to cut a block of wood around 100mm thick in one go, the blade jammed, threw it back, it first hit his left hand then his chest. Blood was pouring out of his hand but luckily it was only one of the superficial vains and there were no broken bones. His chest was the same but obviously with the impact he could not breathe. Considering that he is a bass player he got of quite lightly.

In another occassion, after working almost 48 hours non stop I was delivering a job to a client, driving to Edinburgh which is 45 miles away. I had one of the guys next to me. On the way he fell a sleep but then suddenly I was being shaken by the arm. Apparently I also fell a sleep on the wheel, he woke up to the shaking of the car and we were doing almost 120 miles. Second time I was lucky again but I said, no third time I won't be lucky. And since then I stopped. Again after working insane hours, I got into the car to deliver a job, pulled out of the car park and next I knew there was this lamp post sticking through my bonnet. I again fell a sleep but what it is called a micro sleep. Literally a second or so. But enough to kill you obviously. Micro sleeps are particularly important to the pilots.

Let's be careful.