I hate metalworking

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Just a word of caution when using those stepped or conical bits. Do make sure you're clamped properly.

As the hole gets bigger the face velocity and contact area of the bit increases, and can suddenly reach a point where it 'grips' the metalwork and spins it.

(I found this the hard way and spun a front panel through my thumb. I was lucky not to sever anything important, but there was lots of blood and a short trip to casualty!)  :-X

 
That accident can happen even with a 1/2" bit. Depends on the size/weight/density/bite of the material you're drilling.

SAFETY TIP:

When the part starts spinning, the typical user reaction is to "raise" the drill press or even grab hold of the part to stop it's spinning. DON'T DO THIS.

The correct reflex reaction is "If your left hand looses the piece you're holding while you're drilling it, automatically reach for the power switch with that freed hand while simultaneously pulling the drill press down (not raising it) with your right hand."

Yes, it may/will ruin the part you're drilling (but it's probably ruined anyway when you lost control of it).
Don't sacrifice any body part. 
 
zebra50 said:
Just a word of caution when using those stepped or conical bits. Do make sure you're clamped properly.

As the hole gets bigger the face velocity and contact area of the bit increases, and can suddenly reach a point where it 'grips' the metalwork and spins it.

(I found this the hard way and spun a front panel through my thumb. I was lucky not to sever anything important, but there was lots of blood and a short trip to casualty!)  :-X


Or worse - it spins your wrist instead.  I should have emphasized that in regards to the large uni-bit.  With a well clamped chassis or faceplate you really need to keep a very firm grip (both hands)on the drill and stay focused.  Allowing just the slightest grip attenuation at the wrong time can easily result in your wrist getting spun with enough force to possibly damage your tendons.  I've had my wrist spun a couple of times and it can be quite painful.

Not as bad as a severed thumb though!  Glad you weren't seriously injured.
 
I hope I do not sound to be nit picking but one of the fundamentals of machine safety is that in case of emergency your both hands should be available.

You do not carry out any operations on any machine without clamping the work piece, and drilling on the pedestal drill is no exception. Clamp it onto the drill table.  You do not hold work piece in one hand and try to drill with the other. That is why there are vices and G clamps.

Protect your hands. Use heavy duty gloves that go well over your wrists.

Protect your eyes. Use goggles. You have no idea when a bit of metal chip is going to fly over and stick in your eye. And believe me, it happens.





 
sahib said:
I hope I do not sound to be nit picking ....

Not at all. Sometimes people get slack, lazy or try to rush things. We should never take shortcuts on safety, but...

The very nature of this forum means that lots of members are DIYers and may not be formally trained to use all the gear they're using, which is why it's important to pass on safety tips here as well as other advice. In fact it's amazing what you can buy without any training - electric hedge trimmers, circular saws, chain saws! Scary stuff.

A 19 inch panel can reach a long way if it were to spin. Drilling panels with a stepped bit has an extra risk due to the change in torque - you think it's secure then suddenly it isn't.

I was actually a student at the time using a bit of kit I wasn't trained on at the time - which meant that there was paperwork to be filled! Taught me a lesson... now I'm very wary of the drill press and always use a heavy clamp or vice.

Anyway, not trying to scare people. Work safely!
 
There are very special situations that you have to remove the "legally obligatory" safety apparatus from the machinery to be able to carry out an operation. For example the hood goes over the circular saw blade. I actually had a long argument with the safety officer of the insurance company that came to inspect the workshop. He insisted it should stay at all times. I demonstrated to him that cutting a thin sheet plastic material (say 1-1.5mm) with the hood over the blade was exteremely dangerous, to the extend that it was suicidial. Whereas, you can stick the plastic sheet material onto a sheet of 10-15mm  mdf board using a double sided tape, lower the depth of the blade to 5mm and run the mdf over. The blade will be totally hidden under the mdf board with 10mm thickness of mdf between the blade and your hands.
 
There is an interesting situation brewing here in the States with an apparatus called SawStop. The technology is brilliant and has been out for several years now. If you have never heard of it, check out the videos here. http://www.sawstop.com/howitworks/videos.php The inventor's idea was to have every saw manufacturer in the world use SawStop. None did. So, they started marketing their own line of table saws. Pretty damn good saws I must say. I replaced an old Delta Unisaw with a Sawstop model a few years ago. The insurance guys love it.

Anyhow, I just read an article about a man who severely damaged all of the fingers on his hand using a Ryobi job-site table saw. The courts found Ryobi at fault since the SawStop technology has been available and they chose not to incorporate it into their table saws. The guy got like 1.5 million or something crazy. The article said there are approximately 60 other cases like this making their way thru the courts now.

The inventor of that thing will be a very rich man if he is not already.

PS, work safe no matter what you are doing and protect those ears. You can't get another pair when you screw those up.

And no, I don't know for sure if it works. I hope we never find out!

Cheers, Jeff
 
jsteiger said:
There is an interesting situation brewing here in the States with an apparatus called SawStop. The technology is brilliant and has been out for several years now. If you have never heard of it, check out the videos here. http://www.sawstop.com/howitworks/videos.php The inventor's idea was to have every saw manufacturer in the world use SawStop. None did. So, they started marketing their own line of table saws. Pretty damn good saws I must say. I replaced an old Delta Unisaw with a Sawstop model a few years ago. The insurance guys love it.

Anyhow, I just read an article about a man who severely damaged all of the fingers on his hand using a Ryobi job-site table saw. The courts found Ryobi at fault since the SawStop technology has been available and they chose not to incorporate it into their table saws. The guy got like 1.5 million or something crazy. The article said there are approximately 60 other cases like this making their way thru the courts now.
This is very interesting, indeed, and a complex issue. Here's a link to an article in "Fine Woodworking"
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/26939/more-details-on-the-carlos-osorio-tablesaw-lawsuit

an excerpt: "In April 2004, Carlos Osorio took a job as a flooring installer for PT Hardwood Floor Service in Medford, Mass. According to the defendant’s trial brief, Osorio had never used a tablesaw before, so his boss showed him how to use the tool and cautioned him about the dangers. A couple of weeks later while installing an oak floor, Osorio was ripping a 21/4-in.-wide floorboard on a Ryobi BTS 15 benchtop tablesaw. The blade guard and splitter were removed and he was making the cut without a rip fence."

Freehanding with no fence.

"When he started cutting, he felt chattering and vibration, so he shut off the machine, removed the stock, and cleared away dust and other pieces of flooring from the saw table. Thinking he had solved the problem, he started cutting again, but his difficulties continued, so he pushed the board even harder. His left hand slipped into the spinning blade, nearly removing his pinky finger and severely cutting two other fingers and his thumb. Ultimately, Osorio would undergo five surgeries and 95 occupational therapy visits to treat his injured hand."

The verdict:
"Osorio's case went to trial in February of this year and was decided about four weeks later. A jury concluded that Osorio was 35% responsible for his injuries and One World was 65% liable. They awarded Osorio $1.5 million in damages even though he was only seeking $250,000. The verdict form indicated that the jury felt the saw was "defectively designed" and the defects were a cause of Osorio's accident."

I've worked in the trades all my life and have seen this stuff a bunch of times --the clown that showed him how to use the saw probably took the fence off, too.

I mangled 2 fingers on a radial-arm saw 10 years ago that make playing guitar difficult, but it never occurred to me to sue anyone. I made a stupid cutting decision, and paid a steep price. Carpentry is a -very- dangerous occupation.

I go back to the days when the "macho" attitude was fostered concerning safety equipment, and "OSHA" was ridiculed.
This attitude was encouraged by management, who didn't want to spend the money for safety devices, so they got everyone to laugh at them.
In the 80's I was usually the only one on a jobsite wearing a dust mask. In those days all the painters were alcoholics to counteract the fumes (especially lacquer) but if you showed up with a respirator they laughed --most of them aren't laughing now.
I digress,
My initial reaction was to scoff at this verdict, but am slowly turning around. The tech to fix table saws is there. It should be used.
 
NEVER wear gloves when using a drill press... the glove can get caught and pull your fingers, then hand, then arm into the rotation, breaking bones and possibly ripping out tendons. Better to get a few nicks from the metal shavings.

Clamp the work very securely. Make a jig out of wood to hold the piece if it is too small or delicate to clamp. You should be standing back with only one hand on the machine while you drill. I bought a benchtop drill press on sale for $67 from Harbor Freight and it works fine.

To control the metal shavings try using dishwashing liquid on the part. It lubricates the bit, controls the shavings, and is not as hard to clean up as oil.

Always wear eye protection and ear protection. Use a dust mask if you're cutting plastics or MDF or anything that makes a lot of dust.

I've been cutting XLR holes in aluminum panels in the drill press with a 15/16" spade bit -- a wood working bit.  I clamp the panel to the table between two pieces of MDF and drill. Makes a clean hole. Once you cut the first piece, you can use the top piece of MDF as drilling guide to stop the bit from wandering. Only the little ears on the ends of the bit do the cutting, so you are left with a slug. I'll have to try using the connector to line up the screw holes...measuring hasn't been that sucessful.

For square holes I use a router with an 1/8" bit. I make a jig and use template bushings with a plunge base. Easy to use after the first setup. I go slow, use dishwashing liquid to cool the part and control the shavings, and complete the cut in two passes. I've used a straight bit and an up-spiral bit and both work. Ear protection a must!

SawStop is brilliant! I hadn't heard of it before.


 
Great tips. Some of these safety tips are obvious, but to a beginner, it may not be.

Other tips:

1. Don't wear long sleeves.  (just like a glove, it may get caught)

2. No neckties, necklaces, or bracelets too.

3. If you have a very long pony tail hair on your balding head... cut it. It looks ridiculous.
It's a safety hazard too around machines.

4. I have plenty of safety goggles around my machinery.  There's one that always sits right on top of the drill press table.  I can't drill anything unless I move that safety glass off the press table - good reminder for me to put it on. 
 
bobine said:
NEVER wear gloves when using a drill press... the glove can get caught and pull your fingers, then hand, then arm into the rotation, breaking bones and possibly ripping out tendons. Better to get a few nicks from the metal shavings.


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

With all due respect you have no idea what you are talking about. Considering that the great majority of people on this forum are particulary musicians it is very irresponsible to come up with an advice like that.

Gloves are obligatory protection items in any workplace where there is metalwork involved. When working with metal on the drill press/pedestal drill wear them at all times. Yes, if you wear gloves that are falling apart with bits of thread hanging down, and put your hand around the spinning drill bit (how stuipid one would have to be) or try to stop the drill head, then yes it is exteremely dangerous.  Otherwise the possibility of gloves getting caught by the drill head is as remote as flying to Mars in your pyjamas.

Protect your hands. Wear them at all times.
 
I have to say bobine is correct.

US Dept of Energy has a Safety guide for when using a drill press.  

• Machine Guarding required – suggest using a magnetic backed safety
shield as a minimum.  
• Secure the work piece by clamping it to the table or holding it in a vise.  
• Clear the table of unnecessary clutter.  
• Wear safety glasses.  
• Do not wear gloves while drilling.  
• Constrain long hair (wear a hat).  
• Constrain loose clothing (roll up your sleeves).  
• When the tool is about to break through, ease up on the feed force..
• Remove chip fragments only when the machine spindle is stopped.  
• Never remove long stringy chips with your bare hands.  

I say gloves have their place around the shop... but NOT around drill presses. (or lathe machines)

If a musician is truly worried about their hands around the shop, they should just buy a ready-made unit :)  

EDIT:
Found an OSHA document regarding safety and gloves...
http://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3170.pdf

No gloves while operating a drill, lathe, bandsaw, etc..

 
Common, accepted shop safety advice:  NEVER wear gloves around rotating machinery.
The injuries can be horrific.

A little web research will clear this up. Google gloves and drill press.


Not to scare anyone away from using these tools, but learn from the mistakes of others:
http://www.woodworking.org/AccidentSurvey/Drill_Press.pdf
 
Loose clothing like a long sleeve shirt or other baggy clothing is also a no-no.

We run 2 CNC lathes at our shop and a customer sent me this link a while back. This is the perfect argument why no baggy clothing around machinery like this.

If you are squeamish...do not click this link! Don't let the kids see it either. This backs up every argument for not wearing anything that is a loose fit, like gloves, around any machinery. http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/articles/This+Is+Twisted


Also, for all you long hair types, keep that stuff under a hat or tied off behind you. Maybe tuck it inside your shirt or something.

best, Jeff
 
Jeff, I just wanted to eat ...
(and I'm not squeamish, worked at hospitals for years, incl. one year in an Emergency helicopter)

however, reminds me why I love to have mechanical work outsourced!
 
I was not aware that is the case in US and I am still shocked. In a metalworkshop gloves are one of the major protectice clothing. However it may well be the case in US, advising  "better to have few nicks from metal shavings" is not something that any insurance company would like to read. Apart from the fact that it can be libel. I have studied machining (milling and turning), I have run a business that had a machining shop, I have taught safety at college and I have written safety procedures in workplace.

But I'll agree to disagree.
 
Wow you guys are scaring me. Very good posts on safety, I'll need to digest them before I start doing metalwork.
 
There is nothing to be scared of, but you have to be careful and pay attention.

One of the fundamentals of working with any machinery is that under any circumstances you do not get close to moving parts, never mind touching it. On the pedestal drill, your one hand is lowering the drill head, the other one is free, possibly resting on the drill table or near the on/off switch. When the swarf starts to come out you do not try to remove it by hand. First raise the drill, turn it off, once the drill head comes to rest then you move in and remove the swarf. Obviously most people do not work that way. In great majority of the cases the clear plastic guard which goes around the drill head is removed, because it bothers people. Same goes with the lathes and milling machines. There is normally a clear plastic (polycarbonade as it does not shatter) screen that goes over the workpiece, stopping and swarf or chip flying into your face. Most lathes do not have that because it annoyes people. All my machinery had all the protective screens and hoods. At the moment I have the lathe and the mill left, but the protective apparatus is always on. I am lucky with my engineer guy, big Dan as he is mega extra careful. Sometimes he even goes to the extent of making one off screens depending on the type of workpiece that is being machined to catch the swarf flying about. And for some reason, if he has to hold the work piece on the mill and there is sharp swarf coming out, he has the gloves on his hands.

At the end of the day what matters is in case of an accident and an insurance claim what insurance company is going to look into. You ask your employee not to wear gloves, he tries to remove the workpiece off the drill, cuts through the palm of his hand and makes a claim. First thing your insurers will ask, where was the protective clothing? But if he tried to stop the drill head by hand because he is impatient, as most people do then it is clearly his fault.



 

Latest posts

Back
Top