CE marking compliance

Hi All!

I would like to know how most makers do face compliance with CE marking requirements.... and the cost it involves...

¿does all analog audio products pass the EMI/RFI immunity test?... 

I know i can do a self certification, but also i would have to demonstrate compliance with standards... and build a technical construction file...buff... :

My audio design is full analog, and features internal power supply 230v ac, and i would like to offer it as a final product ready built, just for my country.. Spain...or EC.

Most of the brands we know ...do comply with all these things?? or just stick a CE /Rohs mark and go on...

I'm a bit worried about all these details...


Thank you for your help!!
Jay X

www.emcfastpass.com

Go buy the guide to global certifications.

Easily the best $32 book I've bought on the topic.

Rochey said:

www.emcfastpass.com

Go buy the guide to global certifications.

Easily the best $32 book I've bought on the topic.

Click to expand...

EMC is only part of it. The safety agencies will want you to prove that your mains-connected product won't kill the user if there are various faults.

-a

Andy Peters said:

Rochey said:

www.emcfastpass.com

Go buy the guide to global certifications.

Easily the best $32 book I've bought on the topic.

Click to expand...

EMC is only part of it. The safety agencies will want you to prove that your mains-connected product won't kill the user if there are various faults.

-a

Click to expand...

Indeed, EMC if anything is the minor part. Safety is the more important one. If your product catches fire or gives someone a shock you need to be able to demonstrate you took the necessary steps to ensure it should be safe. Only if someone complains that your product interferes, will the EMC authorities become involved and even then you will be given the opportunity to fix the problem.

Cheers

Ian

Hi,

thanks for your answers, interesting sites.

There is another link here about this subject: http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=45400.0

Jay X

I recently joined an EMC mailing list and today discovered something of a gem. It turns out that for both  the FCC and CE specifications regarding EMC emissions, if your product does not contain any oscillators that operate at a frequency above 9KHz then it is exempt from emissions testing. Apparently this is known as the 9KHz rule.

The FCC does not have an susceptibility test so it looks like any analogue gear using linear power supplies is automatically exempt from all FCC testing and exempt from European emissions testing.

The same article also covered some safety exemptions. Both the UL and CE safety specs apply only if the voltage supplied to the product is above 50VAC or 75V dc. So this basically means all current 500 series equipment is exempt and their power supplies, if linear, are also exempt.

Cheers

Ian

what if your audio input clips strongly @ 10kHz?



The output of your opamp would then be "oscillating" a square wave @ 10kHz.

Rochey said:

what if your audio input clips strongly @ 10kHz?



The output of your opamp would then be "oscillating" a square wave @ 10kHz.

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Shhhh I recall back in the day selling delay line kits that would cause interference on my TV set. Hopefully we are past any statute of limitations on that.

It has been a while since I looked at CE regulations, but I vaguely recall a stipulation that audio inputs would reject RF interference.  I don't recall any hard definitions of what kind and how much.

it's better today than it was when every Euro zone country had their own standards.

JR

Here is a link to the original article:

http://www.emcfastpass.com/could-your-product-be-exempt-from-emc-testing-altogether/

Cheers

Ian

In a broader context, here in the USA getting a Underwriters Labs (UL) approval is very important for a commercial product.

And, when I began working in this biz 40+ years ago, gear also had to get a "City of LA" sticker in order to be sold there.

Those approvals all have to do with shock hazard/fire safety.  Dunno about Euro certifications.

Bri

Brian Roth said:

In a broader context, here in the USA getting a Underwriters Labs (UL) approval is very important for a commercial product.

And, when I began working in this biz 40+ years ago, gear also had to get a "City of LA" sticker in order to be sold there.

Those approvals all have to do with shock hazard/fire safety.  Dunno about Euro certifications.

Bri

Click to expand...

For many years there has been a lot of work on harmonisation of standards on both sides of the Atlantic. The idea is that one set of tests can be used to gain approvals in both markets.

Cheers

Iam

Brian Roth said:

In a broader context, here in the USA getting a Underwriters Labs (UL) approval is very important for a commercial product.

And, when I began working in this biz 40+ years ago, gear also had to get a "City of LA" sticker in order to be sold there.

Those approvals all have to do with shock hazard/fire safety.  Dunno about Euro certifications.

Bri

Click to expand...

My understanding was that UL/CSA approval superseded and was accepted in lieu of City of LA stickers. I recall at least one trade show in LA where City of LA inspectors were checking booth products for safety approval markings.

City of LA inspections were then arranged as cheaper than the fines, or removal of important show products.

JR

I am re-stirring this bubbling pot....

ASSuming that a gizmo uses all linear circuitry (mic preamp/whatever) AND it is powered from a UL approved wallwart/linelump.....

Does UL (and hence insurance carriers) care any further?

Bri

Brian Roth said:

I am re-stirring this bubbling pot....

ASSuming that a gizmo uses all linear circuitry (mic preamp/whatever) AND it is powered from a UL approved wallwart/linelump.....

Does UL (and hence insurance carriers) care any further?

Bri

Click to expand...

Then you should be exempt from FCC if the wall wart is linear and also meet UL. However, you should still contact both authorities and check that this is the case. You should also be exempt from EU EMI emissions standards and meet the safety standards. However, you still need to meet the EU EMI susceptibility standards.

Cheers

Ian

OK. let's assume a UL listed wallwart/line lump which provides 12 VAC.  Inside "the box" we run vacuum tube heaters (AC or rectified DC) as well as a 12 VAC:220 VAC transformer which is rectified into whatever DCV for the anodes.

Bri

Brian Roth said:

OK. let's assume a UL listed wallwart/line lump which provides 12 VAC.  Inside "the box" we run vacuum tube heaters (AC or rectified DC) as well as a 12 VAC:220 VAC transformer which is rectified into whatever DCV for the anodes.

Bri

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If I understand you correctly you are stepping up the 12v to 220V inside the box...Sounds to me like hazardous voltage that needs to be UL inspected, and design approved.

JR

I agree with JR. The specs in general aim to protect the user from hazards like voltage, temperature, radiation. If hazardous voltages exist inside the unit then it will need to be approved.

Cheers

Ian

I've been asking about this to a Certification company here in Spain.

FCC and CE marks costs starts in 19.000€, add repating lab tests, shipping costs etc...

I've also asked about the scenario with external PSU (with it's own CE Mark) and assuming my product doesn't need to meet EMI requirements (no oscillators inside). They told me I could get a Conformity Form (Not sure about the translation, just a document stating my product doesn't need Electrical and EMI safety certifications) I'm waiting they to tell me how to get that document.

I know it's not the best solution, just a way to get into the market for a little manufacturer, don't expect to sell thousands of units, but want to make it legally.

BTW and a bit off-topic: I thought to use a AC-AC converter instead a complete external PSU, And keep my linear PSU into my product, it seems fine while the voltage input is not above 40V.  From a manufacturer point of view maybe it's better to have a external PSU, in case of servicing and warranty issues, in cost vs labor time terms is about the same. Any advice on this point?

dirtyhanfri said:

I've been asking about this to a Certification company here in Spain.

FCC and CE marks costs starts in 19.000€, add repating lab tests, shipping costs etc...

Click to expand...

There is no reason it should cost this much. There is no legal requirement for a CE marked product to be tested. The CE mark only says that you warrant that the product conforms to the relevant EU directives. The directives say if you meet national standards then that is proof you meet the directives but you do not have to test them to any standards to meet the directive. If you do not have the product  tested you can instead keep a technical file which describes the design and the steps you have taken to ensure it conforms to the directive.

I've also asked about the scenario with external PSU (with it's own CE Mark) and assuming my product doesn't need to meet EMI requirements (no oscillators inside). They told me I could get a Conformity Form (Not sure about the translation, just a document stating my product doesn't need Electrical and EMI safety certifications) I'm waiting they to tell me how to get that document.

Click to expand...

They probably mean a Declaration of Conformance. This is just a document that says what directives the product conforms to and your signature to say the product conforms to them. Here is an example:

http://www.conformance.co.uk/info/Resources/dofc_sample.pdf

and here is a link to the web site where I found it:

http://www.conformance.co.uk/info/declarationofcon.php#

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian!

I recently finished a summing mixer design, and now i'm wrinting the user manual and the declaration of conformity.

After all i have read, i want to be sure that, in the path of  SELF CERTIFICATION, writing a declaration of conformity, with mention to the directives and applied harmonized standards, (CENELEC, AENOR, in Spain, etc), is  ENOUGH, to pressume conformity to the essential requirements of the directives: ROHS, LVD,  and EMC.

I will post my declaration of conformity here asap, to see if it is ok.

jay x