JohnRoberts said:
The VW case is particularly offensive because of the outright fraud, lying to customers and governments. The corporate shield does not protect criminal behavior and the VW case is surely criminal.
In recent news they still have not come up with a fix and are being forced to buy back the dirty cars. Supposedly they are not allowed to resell these cars, but I find that hard to imagine.
I have a 2011 TDI, so this affects me directly.
As I see it:
The value of the cars bottomed out the day the news of the cheat was made public. Now, since our intention was to keep the car for at least ten years, resale value by itself isn't all that interesting to me. But things like insurance payouts in event of an accident or theft are set based on resale value, so it cannot be ignored.
There are several possible fixes. One is to retrofit a urea tank for emissions control. Apparently, this is physically impossible for the 2.0 L engines affected, likely since there is no room for the system. Plus, this would be ridiculously expensive for VW, and we must remember the reason for not including a urea tank in the first place was to make the cars less expensive so people like me would be inclined to buy them. After all, it is simple math: if the savings that result for greater fuel mileage aren't more than the cost to buy the car in the first place, what's the point?
The second is a software fix. Reports say that whatever tuning adjustments that need to be made will degrade both mileage and performance. The former is probably less interesting (maybe city mileage goes to 27 down from 30, whatever) than the latter. Nobody wants to drive a dog that they paid real money for. The performance degradation also degrades resale value.
(Funny aside: when I went to the dealer to pick up my two "Customer Appreciation" $500 gift cards that VW gave to all owners as a way of trying to say "don't sue us," one of the salesguys tried to goad me into an argument: "How do you like the car?" "I love it, except for the reason why I'm here." "Don't worry, there will be a fix." "I've heard, it'll be a software fix that'll degrade performance." "No, it won't, it's just a software fix! It won't affect torque or anything." "How much certified, traceable, controlled embedded software have you written, and for whom did you write it?" "<crickets>")
As of a couple of days ago, here is what we know about the plan. Volkswagen will tell customers that either they can get their cars fixed or the cars will be bought back. The buyback price will be based on "book" value as of the day before the cheat announcement ruined the cars' value. The condition of all cars will be assumed "Excellent," because they have no way of knowing the cars' conditions two years ago. Finally, there will be a bonus of at least $5,000, up to perhaps $10,000 paid in cash to the affected owners, over and above the buyback price.
Owners who opt to have VW repair the cars will have to wait for the repair to be finalized and approved, and VW has until the end of 2017 (!) for that. The earliest that repairs will commence will be 2018.
Notably: cars that are bought back by VW, and those which were sitting unsold in dealer lots when the "no sale" order came down, cannot be (re)sold without first being repaired (software fix applied), and they cannot be shipped off to locations which have less stringent emissions protocols.
We are waiting to see what we will actually be offered in the buyback plan. It does put us in a bind, in that as I noted we had intended to keep the car for over ten years, so car payments are something I don't want. I also don't want a used car (I'm not a fan of buying someone else's problems) and it's likely that an equivalently-sized and -equipped car will cost more than the buyback plus bonus.
When I hear reports on the radio about all of this, invariably they talk to a dealership owner who is wailing to the heavens about lost sales and customers. I honestly have zero pity for those dealers. Hey, you know, free market, and all that, and that a local dealer had no control over what Volkswagen corporate did is honestly boring and uninteresting to me. Here's why: local car dealers have lobbied state legislatures to pass laws that make it illegal for a car manufacturer to sell directly to consumers. (This is why I have to go to California if I want to buy a Tesla, and this probably led to Tesla's decision to NOT open a battery factory here in southern Arizona.) The dealers wanted to be independent of the manufacturers so they could continue to operate in their usual slimy way. Complaining to Volkswagen Corporate for the behavior of a dealer is a waste of time, because corporate cannot do anything about it.
So as it is, the dealers bought all of the now-unsaleable TDIs from VW, and they have to eat the costs of storing them until this mishegas is resolved. Sure, they can complain to VW and threaten to sue, but VW can rightly say, "well, we're independent, and the transactions we made to you for the cars are valid and tough nuts." Obviously there will be lawsuits but those are still in the future, waiting for the outcome of the repair and criminal lawsuits between the various governments and VW corporate.
Since the VW dealers are crying poverty, I had an interesting thought. They need to sell cars. The truth is that we really like the Jetta Sportwagen we have. A possible deal conversation could be: "I want a brand new 2017 car that is the same as the one you're buying back, so I want the same trim level and all of that. And I want a trailer hitch. But I won't pay one nickel out of pocket. That means that you, Mr Dealer, pay the difference in cost between the buyback/bonus and the price of the new car. And I am not paying a destination charge, I am not paying a "documentation" fee, and guess what, you're paying my sales tax and my first-year VLT. You don't like it? The Honda and Mazda and Subaru dealers are waiting for our call. If you want the sale, you make it happen, and then you go argue with VW of America for any kickbacks you can get from them. You wanted independence from the manufacturers, this is the cost of that independence."
That will be a very interesting, and likely very short, conversation!
Any people found responsible for this fraud surely should not profit from it, and criminal behavior should be prosecuted.
I wholeheartedly agree.
PS: I still think a more practical remedy is to leave the cars alone and have VW figure some other way to remove a like amount of emissions from the environment (if possible).
I suppose that one might start with tightening emissions on all of those trucks which spew a lot more noxious fumes than my car.
-a
