Brexit

[micaddict]

From what I remember UK chocolate manufacturers were among the first to substitute cocoa butter for other fats, while still calling it chocolate.
In the Netherlands this was and is forbidden.
I think there was some EU "fuss" over this issue, too.

Nothing wrong per se with saturated fat BTW.
There's a whole lot wrong with fats and oils that have been messed with by the industry, though.
And it's the industry that will twist the cholesterol story to its liking.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

From what I remember UK chocolate manufacturers were among the first to substitute cocoa butter for other fats, while still calling it chocolate.
In the Netherlands this was and is forbidden.

Here in France, I believe it's not forbidden, but it is not allowed to be called chocolate anymore, it's "candy".

Nothing wrong per se with saturated fat BTW.

Agreed, as far as I can tell (I'm no doctor...). But there is an issue with trans-fat, which are used as a substitute for saturated fat, because of alleged issues...

And it's the industry that will twist the cholesterol story to its liking.

My understanding is that the main instigator is the pharmaceutical industry; the food industry just jumped aboard.

 

[micaddict]

Here in France, I believe it's not forbidden, but it is not allowed to be called chocolate anymore, it's "candy".

Yes, what I meant was it's forbidden to  replace cocoa butter and still call it chocolate.
We do have that stuff here, but it's called "cacao fantasie".  :

When you also leave out the (defatted) cocoa powder you get "Ersatz".
Germany was likely the first with that one.

 

[ruffrecords]

I would not swear to it but I believe we do  not have any ersatz chocolate in the UK. We are pretty much all chocoholics over here.

Cheers

Ian

 

[micaddict]

I would not swear to it but I believe we do  not have any ersatz chocolate in the UK. We are pretty much all chocoholics over here.

Cheers

Ian

I never said the UK has ersatz chocolate.
Without any cocoa ingredients it wouldn't taste anything like chocolate.
But e.g. during WWII it was all you could get in my country (or so my parents and grandparents have told me).

What I meant regarding the UK is this for instance:
http://www.britzinoz.com/difference-between-australian-and-british-chocolate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_chocolate

 

[ruffrecords]

I never said the UK has ersatz chocolate.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply you did. It was merely a personal  observation.

Cheers

Ian

 

[micaddict]

No problem, Ian.

And I should have added an emoticon. 

 

[Script]

The Tobelarone thing has got nothing to do with Brexit...

I think so too. It really has nothing to do with Brexit per se. The 'before' / 'after' thing is pure sarcasm. A Toblerone speaker (the company is American-owned by the way) also denied that it had anything to do with Brexit. He explained that since cacao has become more expensive to import to the UK due to the recent fluctuation in the GBP-to-overseas currency exchange rates, they had to adjust the product... (end of quote).

Well, does the T bar (although lighter now) cost the same as before or did they also adjust the price? Just being curious here.

 

[[silent:arts]]

Isn't the

recent fluctuation in the GBP-to-overseas currency exchange rates

caused by Brexit? I do think so.

 

[Script]

Isn't the [...] caused by Brexit? I do think so.

Yes, of course, or rather likely, or rather not entirely unlikely, well actually maybe, but could just as well be unrelated as there have been other cases of product changes for various reasons -- either way it's only indirectly, and we want to be exact here, Brexit hasn't happened yet.  (Welcome to PR speak).

I guess Toblerone wants to emphasise that their decision is not a political one -- they didn't change the product to 'punish' Britain, they simply react to a change in reality. And they sure do not want to lose Brexiteers as consumers (marketing think).

If that guy had said: 'Don't get us wrong, it's not political at all -- no, really, not meant to be political -- it's just that it costs us money if we keep the product the same -- and as we all know, there's no free lunch.' Then the world would naturally think that it sure was a political decision or that Toblerone is just another greedy company that, in the 'crisis' scenario, doesn't respect people's opinions and democratically expressed political decisions. At least that's how 'PR speak' producers are taught to think.

Anyway, it's all not a big deal cos you get the 'added value' of it being easier to eat if you bite pieces off instead of breaking them off with your fingers (welcome to advertising speak).

Last but not least, because it's also funny, with some people, the 'before'/'after' sarcasm picture thing in itself also works as free advertising (welcome to postmodern perceive and post-postmodern 4.0 advertise). 

Anyway, I'm only speculating. So:

Does the T bar cost less now than before?

 

[[silent:arts]]

Does the T bar cost less now than before?

No price change
360g instead of 400g
150g instead of 170g
same price

 

[Phrazemaster]

From what I remember UK chocolate manufacturers were among the first to substitute cocoa butter for other fats, while still calling it chocolate.
In the Netherlands this was and is forbidden.
I think there was some EU "fuss" over this issue, too.

Nothing wrong per se with saturated fat BTW.
There's a whole lot wrong with fats and oils that have been messed with by the industry, though.
And it's the industry that will twist the cholesterol story to its liking.

Yeah sat fats are healthy. Butter's good for you (research it!

 

[Phrazemaster]

No price change
360g instead of 400g
150g instead of 170g
same price

Rat-bastards.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Yeah sat fats are healthy. Butter's good for you (research it!

Indeed! Recently, several doctors and scientists have questioned the whole cholesterol issue. Both HDL and LDL (supposedly "good" and "bad") are necessary. Each one is an indicator of two sides of metabolism (feeding and cleaning), not a cause.
It is proven that statines, the common medecine used to reduce HDL, is the cause of cardiac issues.

 

[madswitcher]

Indeed! Recently, several doctors and scientists have questioned the whole cholesterol issue.

Interestingly I recently had a wide spectrum blood analysis done and during the chat with the doctor going over the results, he stated that I was the 14% bracket (the lowest group) of having a 'coronary event' during the next 10 years.  The main influences being the usual - booze, smoking,  lack of exercise etc.,  He also said that low fat/cholesterol-reducing spreads don't do much, since assuming an excess of the usual suspects is avoided, it comes down to an individual pre-disposition. i.e. you don't have much say in it.  So sod the low-fat Flora spread, I am going back to butter. 

Mike

 

[Phrazemaster]

https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy-ebook/dp/B00A25FDUA/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1479175868&sr=1-1&keywords=The+big+fat+lie

'nuff said.

 

[micaddict]

Yes, well, I'm not advocating to eat loads of meat and dairy. That's not good for you, or the animals or the planet.
Just saying that saturated fats (animal or vegetable) are not the problem, as long as they're in their natural state. Preferably unheated too, although saturated fats take heating better than unsaturated ones.
And indeed, vegetable oils or fats (depending on room temperature) can be saturated, as well. Coconut oil is one example as is cocoa butter.

It's the oils and fats that are "refined" and modified by the food industry that are the problem.  Even the bulk of unsaturated oils in bottles is processed. Only the first, "cold" pressings of seeds and olives will give good quality (virgin) oil. But a lot more oil can be pressed out with added heat and chemicals. The latter have to be removed with yet other chemicals. The end product is fuel, not food (even if a small amount of the real thing is added back for flavor).
It gets much worse when these industrial oils are hardened or hydrogenated to make them saturated. The procedure does close the molecule structure, but it's not quite the same as natural saturated fat. Also, transfats  will be created in the procedure. (These artificial transfats are not quite the same as their natural counterparts, either BTW.)  The result is tasteless, terrible looking grease. This can be used for the manufacturing of other "foods".  And yes, it has prolonged shelf life (but it will do the opposite to your life). For it to turn into wrapped margarine (ersatz butter) a lot more has to be added, such as color, flavor, vitamines etc.
The modern, soft margarines contain less saturated fat, but they are heavily processed, as well.

Hydrogenated vegetable oils were a "clever" manmade answer to replace luxury butter and such. And when whaling practically stopped (yes, fortunately) "vegetable oil" even more became the magic term.  "This product contains vegetable oil" or it's even "fully of vegetable origin. So it's good for you." Well yes, vegetable oils can be very healthy indeed. But in anything you'll find in supermarkets, it hardly ever is.
For a long time we have been misled by the food indusrtry.  And when heart diseases and strokes started to get related to saturated fat intake (half a century ago at least) rather than stopping the production of the artificial kind, they helped promoting the myth that all saturated fats (including natural, unprocessed ones) are not very healthy for you. Bad rep is unfortunate, but this way at least they kept their market share. And at the same time of course they started to promote equally heavily processed "foods" that contained unsaturated fats.

BTW, I've been hollering this for some thirty years now. It's good to finally see some world wide support.

We're drifting off topic. To get back to chocolate, if part of the cocoa butter is replaced to save a buck ...um... quid, guess what will come in its place.

 

[Phrazemaster]

I'm a vegetarian.  ;D

A lot of what we've been sold as nutritional advice is propaganda from the meat/dairy/Pharma companies. Caveat emptor. Your life is at stake.

I used to make my own chocolate with cacao nibs and cacao butter.

Could this thread be any more OT?

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I'm a vegetarian.  ;D

I'm not, but I do care about nutrition, and eat more veggies and fruit than your average westerner. However, when I live in the US (about two months a year), I find it quite difficult to source proper veggies and fruit; everything seems to come from extensive agriculture based on fertilizers and phytosanitary processing. How do you manage?
My next endeavour is to find good organic supplies in the New Orleans area.

Could this thread be any more OT?

Probably not; it's so good... ;D

 

[micaddict]

I'm a vegetarian.  ;D

I was for a long time, too.
Now I cheat occasionally. But only with organic, animal friendly meat. (That last bit sounds paradoxical, doesn't it?)

Your life is at stake.

Well, at least yours is not at steak.