Dynamic Kick Drum Mic

[jeremynothman]

I can agree to a certain point, but it depends on the other mic used.
If I use a RE20, Sennheiser MD421 or Beyer M88 on the kick drum I would use for sure a SubKick to represent the sub frequencies that the kick drum has and are common on a modern jazz record, as those mics are not that responsive in the sub region. So for me it depends on the mic combination and choice, also of course on what the band/artist want to achieve.

If I use a FET47 or U87 I normally don't need the subkick as a complement.

I love the punch of an M88, but is anyone seriously using it as the ONLY mic on a kick? I don’t much care for the sound of a D112, but I think that maybe if I only had one mic up, it would get me there faster. Isn’t practically everyone using a condenser and a dynamic in tandem, or at least one in, one out?

Anyway, I know none of this answers the OP’s question, and my answer would be that if they love the D112, they should save up a little money and buy one secondhand. In Germany they sell for 100€ secondhand, which is certainly less than an MD421 or M88 (not to mention an RE20, MD441 or D12 which all cost a good bit more)

 

[mhelin]

Shure 91A/Senn E901/Behr 19A inside, and some other mic outside (does it HAVE to be a dynamic?).

 

[wlinart]

If on a budget, i like the EV PL33. About half of what the more popular kick drum mics are, but sounds very similar to a d112 EDIT: not similar to a D112, similar to a beta 52, so less "clicky"

 

[Tubetec]

RE-20 is a great all round mic , wish I had one ,
they can sometimes be found with floppy headbaskets ,
in which case a foam kit is avialable from EV ,
its an easy fix , not much can go wrong with them .

I never liked the AKG D112 series as a bass drum mic , Id take a Shure Beta 52A anyday ,
I did see the capsule for the SM-7b is available as a spare for reasonable money , might make an interesting kick drum mic project .

Mics like the Beyerdynamic M380 and its variants all contain a similar driver to a DT-100 headphone , so that might be a good diy idea if you happen to have a spare lying around , it has a figure 8 patern , and a very tame top end .

The problem with modern kick drum mics is everyones trying to out hype everyone else and you end up with this quacky bass drum sound , more treble than the snare ,
I blame Lars Ulrich for it

 

[Whoops]

The problem with modern kick drum mics is everyones trying to out hype everyone else and you end up with this quacky bass drum sound , more treble than the snare ,
I blame Lars Ulrich for it

Not all of them to be honest,
the worst one is really the Audix D6, overly hyped in the high end and the sub, it's just for an Heavy Metal kick drum sound. I personally can't stand this mic.

For modern Kick Drum mics that sound great and are not over hyped I really like the Electro Voice 868, EV ND68 and the new AKG D12VR. All of them sound great

 

[Elksonic]

I can vouch for the V-Kick. I use it a lot. Very versatile and sounds great.

 

[Mammals]

Agreed on EV ND868, perfectly fine mic that can typically be found cheaply in good used condition

 

[Dave Obergoenner]

FREE kick mic...

I had a destroyed RE20. Plastic phase thingy under the diaphragm had broken loose (very common), so not repairable, unless sent to EV for a fairly expensive repair. The case was all beat to crap anyway, so I didn't wish to invest much in it.

I also had a set of Koss open air headphones with one side blown.

So, I removed the element from the RE20, wrapped a little foam around the still good Koss headphone driver, and soldered it in place of the EV element.

Lots of very deep bass on the kick from that! But not really boomy like using a speaker. Just emphasized the deep sounds of the drum. Had to HP filter it actually if used alone. Used in conjunction with any garden variety dynamic (like an SM58, or a cheap 57/58 clone) the combination proved very useful, and gave some really beautiful kick sounds. My son still uses that combination in his studio fairly often.

Dave O.

 

[kingkorg]

Most kick mics are not much more than dynamic capsule + simple RLC circuit which is just passive EQ to tailor the frequency response. You can use pretty much any dynamic capsule + capacitor, inductor and resistor to make any response you like.

 

[jeremynothman]

FREE kick mic...

I had a destroyed RE20. Plastic phase thingy under the diaphragm had broken loose (very common), so not repairable, unless sent to EV for a fairly expensive repair. The case was all beat to crap anyway, so I didn't wish to invest much in it.

I also had a set of Koss open air headphones with one side blown.

So, I removed the element from the RE20, wrapped a little foam around the still good Koss headphone driver, and soldered it in place of the EV element.

Lots of very deep bass on the kick from that! But not really boomy like using a speaker. Just emphasized the deep sounds of the drum. Had to HP filter it actually if used alone. Used in conjunction with any garden variety dynamic (like an SM58, or a cheap 57/58 clone) the combination proved very useful, and gave some really beautiful kick sounds. My son still uses that combination in his studio fairly often.

FREE kick mic...

I had a destroyed RE20. Plastic phase thingy under the diaphragm had broken loose (very common), so not repairable, unless sent to EV for a fairly expensive repair. The case was all beat to crap anyway, so I didn't wish to invest much in it.

I also had a set of Koss open air headphones with one side blown.

So, I removed the element from the RE20, wrapped a little foam around the still good Koss headphone driver, and soldered it in place of the EV element.

Lots of very deep bass on the kick from that! But not really boomy like using a speaker. Just emphasized the deep sounds of the drum. Had to HP filter it actually if used alone. Used in conjunction with any garden variety dynamic (like an SM58, or a cheap 57/58 clone) the combination proved very useful, and gave some really beautiful kick sounds. My son still uses that combination in his studio fairly often.

Dave O.

Beyer quite famously used the DT880 600ohm driver in the M380 microphone, which has a lovely sound.

 

[Migs 31]

Most kick mics are not much more than dynamic capsule + simple RLC circuit which is just passive EQ to tailor the frequency response. You can use pretty much any dynamic capsule + capacitor, inductor and resistor to make any response you like.

And you is absolutely right Sir!
« You can use pretty much any dynamic capsule »

In fact this BETA 52 capsule looks strangely similar to any BETA 57 or other Shure mics of that range.
It measured 30mm outside diameter.
I was expecting something bigger under that grill !?!

Now, I don’t have the balls to dismantle the plastic clips structure inside. Just to look at cap values-inductor-resistor. For I need that mic in a gigging state this week...
M

 

[Tubetec]

I knew there was a headphone driver used in the M380 , we had one in a studio I worked years back and I took a sneaky look inside .

The M380 is of course nominally fig 8 patern , the side rejection helps keep the top end kit out of the bass drum mic to a very high degree , I often used a large duvet to 'tent' the front of the bass drum and reduce the ambient sound hitting the rear lobe of the mic .
less spill means you have more scope to eq the sound as you wish .

 

[thecr4ne]

Re: Beyerdynamic M380, I made a pair and have a thread about it:
Beyerdynamic M380 from Parts

That mic is literally just the driver. The real deal has a humbucking coil, but no other circuitry. I bet you could get something close, or at least interesting just experimenting with the 250 and 600 ohm DT770/880/990 headphones as-is with some adapters if you don't want to dismantle them. The difference between the open-back and closed back would be interesting to check out. Or even other headphones with decent impedance.

 

[Paul W]

Most kick mics are not much more than dynamic capsule + simple RLC circuit which is just passive EQ to tailor the frequency response. You can use pretty much any dynamic capsule + capacitor, inductor and resistor to make any response you like.

Does a normal dynamic capsule tend to get nonlinear in this application, with the diaphragm motion exceeding the throw within which it's linear, and more or less bang against the limits of elasticity of its suspension?

If so I'd think the details of how the diaphragm is suspended would tend to matter a lot because you're partly synthesizing bangs rather than accurately tracking the real bangs of the drum. (I'd also think that a mic that normally sounds good, within its linear range, might sound bad for that, and an otherwise not-great-sounding mic might by random chance sound pretty cool.)

 

[Dave Obergoenner]

Does a normal dynamic capsule tend to get nonlinear in this application, with the diaphragm motion exceeding the throw within which it's linear, and more or less bang against the limits of elasticity of its suspension?

If so I'd think the details of how the diaphragm is suspended would tend to matter a lot because you're partly synthesizing bangs rather than accurately tracking the real bangs of the drum. (I'd also think that a mic that normally sounds good, within its linear range, might sound bad for that, and an otherwise not-great-sounding mic might by random chance sound pretty cool.)

I don't know of any heavy-handed (or footed) drummer who could over-drive a Senn 421! I'm pretty sure some other dynamics could be over-driven however. Lately I'm using a Shure SM-7 with good results...plus my home-brew sub kick (headphone driver) if some sub freqs are requested/required.

I come from the days when the actual bass (either guitar or upright) was at the low-end of the spectrum on most recordings...not so much the kick-drum. Then suddenly, the kick was at the bottom, and everyone was high-passing the crap out of the bass guitar...till it just sounded like another guitar. Sorry, not my sound.

Actually, the kick can share spectrum space with the bass if the kick is well muted/damped. They don't have to get in the way of each other. In fact, they can complement each other with decent players of each instrument. Rap records, well, that's a different story. Boom Boom Boom, and not much else. Hard for me to listen to.

 

[kingkorg]

Does a normal dynamic capsule tend to get nonlinear in this application, with the diaphragm motion exceeding the throw within which it's linear, and more or less bang against the limits of elasticity of its suspension?

If so I'd think the details of how the diaphragm is suspended would tend to matter a lot because you're partly synthesizing bangs rather than accurately tracking the real bangs of the drum. (I'd also think that a mic that normally sounds good, within its linear range, might sound bad for that, and an otherwise not-great-sounding mic might by random chance sound pretty cool.)

No idea. Idk much about dynamic capsules.

 

[ubxf]

Our place in NYC records a lot of music from these traditions, and I'm of course well-aware of how fidelity and bandwidth in capture and playback systems have increased since the 1960s.

But players who operate within (and are informed by) those traditions retain many of the same concepts of drum tuning, sizing, and capture from that era.

It's useful, I feel, to understand that a subkick isn't just a capture device--it adds information and lengthens sustain a one particular frequency (58Hz in the case of an NS-10M driver) as the undamped driver resonates on its own following energy input. I mentally frame the sub-kick as a "sub-synth" that augments and lengthens sustain of a kick drum.

Someone playing in the style of one of the above-mentioned drummers may have an 18" bass drum tuned fairly-high with two full heads and only a little muffling. In this scenario, you usually will not need the drum's sustain lengthened, and the drummer/producer/artist may not be looking for additional sub frequencies (if they were, they'd likely have tuned lower and used a larger drum). Strategies that might work well in contemporary pop production can often be a sum-negative in a different context.

The time/pulse in these traditions tends to center the ride cymbal and its interaction with the double-bass. Kick and snare are used to create energy/intensity/activity that's highly non-periodic (not much "boom bap"). The timbres and roles of the various drums of the kit in this context coevolved with the function of the double bass in the ensemble. Higher tuning and smaller size are fairly idiomatic.

As for the D112--it's got a rather scoopy response and is tailored to emphasize attack and punch. In concepts where the bass drum is a midrange-focused "third hand" (often with a soft felt or even lambswool beater), this isn't usually a go-to behavior for me.

But the only rule that matters is... "whatever works."

@soapfoot is the sound of the kick for traditional jazz like a low tom ? Then would you also pull the mic away from the drum head a touch ?

 

[Rowboat]

I know this is not high on everyone's list of classic mic's to recreate or modify, but has anyone built or modded a simple dynamic kick-drum microphone?

My favorite is a AKG D112 outside in front of the head for jazz, but @ $200.00 new, I really can't justify buying one AND paying the rent!

I see AliExpress has cheap kick mics that might make a good donor body (though I've never pulled apart a D112 or 52a);

https://www.aliexpress.com/af/bass-...ne&trafficChannel=af&catId=0&g=y&isFreeShip=y
but I am wondering if there is a way to mod one inexpensively to get where I am trying to sonically go?

Much obliged!

If you can scramble up some money, the Heil PR40 won't disappoint you at all.

 

[JeffKall]

In any case, the OP mentions “jazz,” and assuming we’re talking about “the tradition that includes Max Roach, Philly Joe Jones, Art Blakey, Roy Haynes, Elvin Jones et al,” I’m not sure a subkick would be something I’d lean on heavily.

On the other hand, OP also mentions the D112, which would likewise not be my first pull for such a situation, so perhaps I’m making incorrect assumptions about what they mean by “jazz”

I agree … and it’s interesting to note that back in this era it was rare to find a bass drum with its front head either removed or with a hole cut in it to accommodate a microphone and/or damping (blankets/pillows/packing quilts) …

This practice was first documented during Beatle sessions at Abbey Road with engineer Geoff Emmerick …

In fact … it was a rarity to even have a dedicated bass drum mic back in that era … and if one was used it was more likely to be placed adjacent to the batter head than the front head …

The evolution of the kick drum is an interesting one … and one of my personal favorite stories is how famed “Telstar” engineer Joe Meek specifically used a U47 on Tornados drummer Clem Cattini’s fiber drum case to get that “clicky” kick all … well some … of us contemporary engineers know and love and seem to incessantly pursue …

Subsequently… I too was guilty of stuffing a blanket in my 22” Pearl kick and using a wooden beater on my DW5000 with an AKG D112 or Audix D6 to get that “scooped” sound … but as I have aged and evolved I now use a vintage EV RE20 peeking into a blanket-less drum with a Shure Beta 91A resting on a pad near the batter head … resulting in that nice full kick sound that you feel in your chest as well as hear …

I have toyed with the idea of building a subkick … but when I really want that extra resonance I use my R Bass plug in …

But again … it truly is so subjective …and it all comes down to the sound we are seeking !!!

Happy (kick) recording !!!

 

[Rowboat]

I agree … and it’s interesting to note that back in this era it was rare to find a bass drum with its front head either removed or with a hole cut in it to accommodate a microphone and/or damping (blankets/pillows/packing quilts) …

This practice was first documented during Beatle sessions at Abbey Road with engineer Geoff Emmerick …

In fact … it was a rarity to even have a dedicated bass drum mic back in that era … and if one was used it was more likely to be placed adjacent to the batter head than the front head …

The evolution of the kick drum is an interesting one … and one of my personal favorite stories is how famed “Telstar” engineer Joe Meek specifically used a U47 on Tornados drummer Clem Cattini’s fiber drum case to get that “clicky” kick all … well some … of us contemporary engineers know and love and seem to incessantly pursue …

I am guilty of stuffing a blanket in my 22” Pearl kick and using a wooden beater on my DW5000 with an AKG D112 or Audix D6 to get that sound … but as I have aged and evolved I now use a vintage EV RE20 peeking into a blanket-less drum with a Shure Beta 91A resting on a pad near the batter head … resulting in that nice full kick sound that you feel in your chest as well as hear …

I have toyed with the idea of building a subkick … but when I really want that extra resonance I use my R Bass plug in …

But again … it truly is so subjective …and it all comes down to the sound we are seeking !!!

Happy (kick) recording !!!

Re: "clicky" kick, my mid-1980s drummer worked for a spell making plexiglass displays. There, he came up with a solution, laminated some beaters of different weights from plexi scraps, and made different thickness plates to stick on the kick head at point of impact. Not sure what they were made of but they didn't crack. Boomf/klack!