Is there a common cause for rising antisemitism and historic racism?

[JohnRoberts]

Warning, what follows is my opinion.

My sense is that a full understanding of history can reduce some of these problematic "ism's". But what are the kids being taught in school these days? It appears that they are being taught to pre-judge and hate people because of skin color, religion, wealth and/or other superficial differences.

How can we fix this? I know a number of people who have home schooled their children to avoid the public education system's programming. This problem has been festering for years and sadly is now bearing bitter fruit.

To fix this will not be easy, but if we don't even recognize it we will never fix it.

JR

PS: When I was a young man participating in spontaneous protests against the Viet Nam war, we chanted stuff like "Hooray, hooray, LBJ gave up today". Now we are more likely to hear "Death to America" chanted inside America.

 

[fallout]

Schools these days certainly don't help things but I think teaching ism's starts with the parents.

Parents that teach their kids to be kind typically raise kind children. Parents that are assholes raise assholes.

 

[JohnRoberts]

IMO, a strong supportive nuclear family is important for healthy child development. There are some perverse economic incentives associated with welfare for unmarried mothers that keep the biologic father away.
===
My father died in the 1950s so I was raised in a single parent household for years. My mother took a full time job to support us, and we children had to step up and do chores like cooking dinner for the entire family, etc. In hindsight my mother was a strong woman. She remarried in the 60s to man with 4 children of his own. It was not remotely like those TV show comedies about crowded house step families, it kind of sucked***.

JR

*** I finally made peace with my step father when he was dying of cancer. I thanked him for making my mother happy.

 

[hodad]

But what are the kids being taught in school these days? It appears

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You have absolutely no idea what is being taught in schools these days. I seriously doubt you spend any substantial time with young folks either, so any impression you might have of what they're like is from what someone else has told you, or some cheesy tv docudrama, or isolated news stories that get blown out of proportion.

But since you bring up hate amongst the young people: one of my son's elementary school friends ended up in a fairly bourgeois, religious-affiliated middle school. For some school lesson or other, the teacher had a mariachi band come in to play for the class. My son's friend's classmates started chanting, "Build the wall! Build the wall!" Now where exactly might they have learned that lesson in hate from?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Thank you for your gracious contribution.

JR

 

[hodad]

There are plenty of places to look for the sources of rising racism and antisemitism (and other forms of prejudice and bigotry.) What about social media platforms that promote anger over comity? What about politicians who emphasize division and othering over finding common ground? School should be near the bottom of your list of concerns.

Further: I've worked with & gotten to know quite a few folks in their early twenties over the past several years, and I don't see the rise in racism & bigotry that you're talking about. They've on the whole been a very open and accepting bunch. I don't doubt that the problem exists; I just think you're painting with a very broad brush.

 

[sr1200]

As a parent of two small kids, with a wife thats a teacher... it depends on where you live. Where I am, this is NOT coming from the schools... the schools are teaching/pushing inclusivity more than ever, not exclusivity, racism, sexism and just about every other ism. It isn't tolerated in or out of school to the point of disciplinary action in school or possible suspension.

That being said, there are a couple of kids in my older sons class that are raging bigots at the age of 10. Knowing their parents, and their social/political views, it's 100% coming from home. They sound like stereotypical rednecks living in suburban New York. One of the fathers got drunk one day and stood in the street yelling racial slurs at his neighbors house who I believe are from Honduras, calling them Mexicans and something about a wall. Mind you this guy works for a 3 letter agency, and it isn't the IRS.

From the reports that i get to read at work, (that dont get to hit most of the general media), there has been a huge push since about 2015/2016 (in actuality, its been longer than that, but a significant uptick around then) to turn Americans against themselves coming from outside the country via social media and other major media outlets. Its a pretty deep rabbit hole that is well documented. I don't recommend it.

 

[jabe]

"Historic" racism?

 

[fallout]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You have absolutely no idea what is being taught in schools these days. I seriously doubt you spend any substantial time with young folks either, so any impression you might have of what they're like is from what someone else has told you, or some cheesy tv docudrama, or isolated news stories that get blown out of proportion.

I happen to know what's going on in schools as I'm pretty involved with my nieces and nephews and let me just say, teaching a 10 year old girl how to 'twerk' for a dance recital doesn't sit well with me. I don't think it's 'cute' whatsoever. Perhaps you feel different?

Anyway, I think parenting has a much stronger effect on kids than school. Teach your kids to be kind and chances are they'll grow up just fine.

 

[fallout]

That being said, there are a couple of kids in my older sons class that are raging bigots at the age of 10. Knowing their parents, and their social/political views, it's 100% coming from home. They sound like stereotypical rednecks living in suburban New York.

Being an asshole isn't directly related to social/political views, although they may intersect at times. I know plenty of liberal and conservative adults that both hit the red on the asshole meter.

Genuine kindness has nothing to do with political views.

They sound like stereotypical rednecks living in suburban New York.

Gee.. You sound like you're quite tolerant and oozing with kindness. Would you say the same about 'stereotypical' inner city thugs?

I hope your wife teaches that it's not good to stereotype.

https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/stereotypes/stereotypes-definition-and-why-they-are-wrong/

 

[jabe]

Yes, sr1200, how dare you not show more deference to the drunken racist screaming slurs at your neighbor. Clearly is he the true victim of racism. /s

 

[fallout]

It's too bad self awareness can't be taught.

 

[sahib]

I do not know the school education in the US, but we agree that, in general it comes from the family.

We are also dealing with human nature here. There are the kind of people fallout described well and no amount of nurture will change their minds.

 

[soliloqueen]

people become more hostile when they feel helpless and isolated. it's everyone's economic and social situation combined that's got them at each other's throats, IMO. usually, people have social connections to make them feel safe in times of economic and political tribulation, but those local connections are dissolving these days, so people can no longer cope as well with the stress. people without adequate social bonds are easy prey for cults and cult mentalities like incel and pickup culture, neo nazi groups, etc.

 

[sr1200]

@fallout we have those too, they're just one village over. And my tolerance is quite high. I dont care what your stance is on anything (sex, race, orientation, political affiliation etc.) until you start trying to pick a physical fight to get your point across. Perhaps my wording could have been better, but, without sharing photos/videos, thats the best way I could describe the situation. Sorry, I should have known better than to chime in here.

 

[fallout]

I think you're missing my point. In one breath you're saying "the schools are teaching/pushing inclusivity more than ever, not exclusivity, racism, sexism and just about every other ism." and then in the next you're saying "They sound like stereotypical rednecks living in suburban New York."

Odd choice of words considering the point you were trying to make.

..and I agree, physical violence isn't acceptable.

 

[cyrano]

My take on this:

We have to start acknowledging racism is natural.

Being natural doesn't mean it's good. I mean, bashing each other's head in with a stone once was natural too.

That means we have to stop treating racism as if it's something vile and inhuman. Strangely, it's the puritans who are the main problem here. Either they are racist and cover it up, or they are strongly anti-racist. Seems to be a narrowed vision in the style "I'm right, the rest is wrong".

Also, it's not a problem of left or right. As it is natural, it occurs in every political party. It's just far more visible on the right.

As a friend of mine once put it: "I'm not a racist, cause I like the Chinese". She's afraid of big black men. Even when there are none around. I don't think something happened to her to induce that fear. Maybe it was just a strange nightmare?

Racism is very close to phobic fear of spiders, or mice. There's not much a mouse can do to you, yet there are plenty of people who panic even when just thinking there's a mouse around.

We might just need to stop calling it "racism" and start calling it "unreasonable fear". And we badly need to de-politicise it. It's a medical and educational problem. Not a political one.

Fear is the key...

 

[sahib]

That means we have to stop treating racism as if it's something vile and inhuman.

It is something vile. You have to treat it vile. You can not normalise it. Particularly now that we know better.

Fear is the key...

Fear is one of the many keys.

 

[cyrano]

It is something vile. You have to treat it vile. You can not normalise it. Particularly now that we know better.

Racism has a broad spectrum. It isn't vile per sé. Someone who's afraid of strangers might prefer not to be in an environment with said strangers. Say, a landlord who refuses to rent to certain people. That is illegal, but hard to prove if it's a smart landlord.

There is a certain part of racism that can be extremely vile. Like the kind of anti-semitism that nazis have. You can however divide that vileness with the rest of Europe. Europe was never pro and a lot of people still are antisemites. It's not a simple thing.

A problem with legal anti-racism measures is that racism isn't well defined and easy to conceal. If you don't like a stranger is that because of the person or because of the race?

I also don't think it has become worse. At least not in my neighborhood. Unless you wanna draw Gaza into the discussion. That certainly has led to a rise in anti-semitism cause some of us have difficulty distinguishing between zionists and Jews. And now Netanyahu would like anti-zionism to be equalled to anti-semitism. As if that would justify genocide...

It's the same with wokeism. None of us want to stop individuals leading their lives as they want. Be it LGBTQ or whatever. It's just the entire legal circus around it that has gone completely haywire. I imagine much to the chagrin of the entire legal profession.

Years ago, we got laws that forbid age discrimination, especially in the workplace. It's never worked cause the employer obviously doesn't sack you for being too old. They'll just call it a reorganisation or something like it.

Being able to openly talk about it without fear of retaliation is the first step to progress. The same thing goes for child abuse. It's been under the radar for like forever.

 

[sahib]

....Someone who's afraid of strangers might prefer not to be in an environment with said strangers. Say, a landlord who refuses to rent to certain people. That is illegal, but hard to prove if it's a smart landlord.

If the landlord's refusal is based on the person's race then it is a vile act. But if the person is a dodgy looking guy then it is a matter of trust or safety or whatever.

A problem with legal anti-racism measures is that racism isn't well defined and easy to conceal.

Agreed.

If you don't like a stranger is that because of the person or because of the race?

We are now getting into the egg or a hen situation .
There are Turkish people that I would not like to have as my neighbours. I am Turkish. Does that make me a racist?

I also don't think it has become worse.

Agreed. It is because we are more exposed to it now, and thanks to on line/social media for that. There is also the bandwagon factor.

At least not in my neighborhood. Unless you wanna draw Gaza into the discussion. That certainly has led to a rise in anti-semitism cause some of us have difficulty distinguishing between zionists and Jews. And now Netanyahu would like anti-zionism to be equalled to anti-semitism. As if that would justify genocide...

Agreed.

It's the same with wokeism. None of us want to stop individuals leading their lives as they want. Be it LGBTQ or whatever. It's just the entire legal circus around it that has gone completely haywire. I imagine much to the chagrin of the entire legal profession.

Tell me about it. Have you heard of the recent " hate crime" law that came into force here in Scotland? Worse, over and above that there is also a legislation under which you can get into trouble for saying certain things, even though legally it is not criminal. Confused? You are not alone. Bloody Kafka makes more sense.

But the biggest danger of it is that, say you invite your friends for a dinner, during the course of it you make a comment which one of your friends may interpret as hate crime, shops you to the police and you are in trouble. Talk about Stasi.

Years ago, we got laws that forbid age discrimination, especially in the workplace. It's never worked cause the employer obviously doesn't sack you for being too old. They'll just call it a reorganisation or something like it.

We still have them but they can never work.

Being able to openly talk about it without fear of retaliation is the first step to progress.

Agreed. It is the only way.