Manley Reference Cardioid Schematic and some analysis

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

kingkorg

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2017
Messages
3,026
Location
Norway
So i got the chance to work on one of these. Here's a schematic i came up with. It should be correct, not sure about transformer feedback path as i didn't want to try remove the transformer. The voltages are off due to error in LTSpice simulation, disregard them. B+ is 330v, zener is at about 130v, capsule at 60v. Transformer inductances are just for the purpose of the simulation, not correct.

A @qspart did his own reverse engineering, and built the circuit. There are some differences, not sure if one of us made a mistake or if there is variance between revisions.

What if you opened up a Manley Reference C and ...

Edit: C3 should be 100n, i entered it wrong in the schematic!
Manley Refference Cardioid Unofficial Schematic.jpg

The circuit is interesting, they surely managed to tame the 12ax7. It is not particularly noisy, but i haven't measured exact noise figure.

Transformer ratio is 11:1 for audio out, and 14:1 for the feedback. R19 is connected to ground for -10db pad.


I injected various level signal from my audio interface to check for the circuit response and THD behavior. Just db values, no exact voltage values sorry.
The circuit is flat, and due to feedback there is not much tube sound to speak of. At -30db injection signal which would translate to typical vocal spl range it is squeaky clean. Typical THD for FET mics, not for tube mics.

-30db.jpg

At -20db still very clean, but the transformer starts to misbehave bellow 50hz. My standard topology tube mics have between 2% and 3% THD at this input level.
-20db.jpg

At -15 we get 1%THD at 1k. But above and below it's not the same story- At 50hz we have 5.3%
-15 LF 5.3.jpg

And at 4k we get 3.82%, and it gets worse above that.

-15 HF 3.82.jpg



Circuit wise the mic takes quite high SPL before it starts rapidly to go up in THD. Not typical for a tube mic.


Now the capsule. As i have mentioned before they use cheapo 30 $ (at best) capsule, and this is my biggest complaint having the price of the mic in mind. Very sharp HF boost, preceded by dip at about 5.5k. The dip is accentuated by the grille of the microphone. Good k67 doesn't have this dip, the rise is smooth. The dip contributes to the hyped and sharper Q HF boost.

Nothing special about this capsule, this is typical response found in many 100 $ range microphones.

No matter what the circuit does, is it tube or not, this is perfect example of something many call ''China sound''.

Green - Capsule on it's own, Blue - Frequency response of the microphone itself. Considering the type of body used, they have done great job to make it pretty transparent. Usually there are more deviations in this type of body.
Manley FR.jpg

Here's the Manley capsule against identical capsule taken out of Sterling Audio ST51. ST51 is red. Disregard the low end bump, it is the measurement artefact. This is the same capsule, manufactured or distributed by Feilo.

Manley vs ST51.jpg

They do deserve some slack, the mic came out in 1991, so i doubt there was much knowledge about capsules and many alternate sources. Around that period popular mod for u87 was to remove the de-emphasis and bring back that HF response. This was still analog age, so extra HF was often useful.

Edit:
I almost forgot. The capsule hiZ connection, grid, and 300Meg resistor are soldered to the board, and the flux isn't cleaned. Not really visible, there are lots of it remaining on the board. Ironically, the lady owner from Manley mentions in a tube swap video to be careful not to touch the sensitive area with bare hands 🤦‍♂️
20230728_003030.jpg

One more issue it has is the fact that the capsule stand is made out of soft rubber, and similarly to Røde NT1 (black) it vibrates, and resonates substantially at LF. Here's a video demonstrating the potential issue.



My conclusion is that the mic is unique circuit wise, it will not give you typical tube mic behavior, no ''warmth'' or character. At high SPL the mic will start to sound very ugly, very quick. A mic at this price point deserves much better capsule.
 
Last edited:
Here are some random pictures, and one side by side against my "clone". Sorry for the hairy legs 😜
 

Attachments

  • 20230731_190907.jpg
    20230731_190907.jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 6
  • 20230731_183700.jpg
    20230731_183700.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 4
  • 20230731_183646.jpg
    20230731_183646.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 3
  • 20230731_183634.jpg
    20230731_183634.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 3
  • 20230731_173755.jpg
    20230731_173755.jpg
    3.4 MB · Views: 3
  • 20230731_173739.jpg
    20230731_173739.jpg
    3.1 MB · Views: 4
  • 20230731_173752.jpg
    20230731_173752.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 2
  • 20230731_173746.jpg
    20230731_173746.jpg
    3 MB · Views: 0
  • 20230729_183024.jpg
    20230729_183024.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 2
  • 20230729_183021.jpg
    20230729_183021.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 2
  • 20230729_183016.jpg
    20230729_183016.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 4
  • 20230729_183007.jpg
    20230729_183007.jpg
    2.8 MB · Views: 3
  • 20230729_183003.jpg
    20230729_183003.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 1
  • 20230729_182958.jpg
    20230729_182958.jpg
    2.8 MB · Views: 2
  • 20230729_182948.jpg
    20230729_182948.jpg
    3.1 MB · Views: 4
  • 20230729_182944.jpg
    20230729_182944.jpg
    3 MB · Views: 0
  • 20230729_182936.jpg
    20230729_182936.jpg
    3.2 MB · Views: 5
Theres a German mic based on the 12ax7 ,
feedback over two stages ,
Capsule maker as well ,
name doest come to mind just now ,

Thanks for the sim and appraisal ,
stands to reason the Manley chases its tail on transients in a fairly unpleasent way ,

Thiele , that was it,
correction , Thieles is a CF output ,
 
Last edited:
Theres a German mic based on the 12ax7 ,
feedback over two stages ,
Capsule maker as well ,
name doest come to mind just now ,

Thanks for the sim and appraisal ,
stands to reason the Manley chases its tail on transients in a fairly unpleasent way ,

Thiele , that was it,
correction , Thieles is a CF output ,
Thanks for this!
 
I was considering trialing the Thiele circuit in my SCT-700 ,
would only require minimal modification ,

The more I dig into the sim of the WOo ,
the more puzzled I am ,
its like a tube stomp box circuit stuffed into a LDC mic :D
 
Not sure tho which Thiele mic, i'm finding just cathode out Thiele mic schematics.

Edit,
I just saw the correction in Tubetec original reply.
 
That's some wonky drilling pattern, at least on the rear backplate... Buuuuuut i guess that's effective "recycling" of parts unsuitable for the "active" side.
That's a great catch! Haven't noticed myself. Now that you've said it, what's visible from the front side isn't much better.
 
The casework is sexy , I'll give it that ,
but its about the only thing the mic has going for itself really ,
 
Have you tried a small EQ dip at around 11.5KHz?
An EQ like that should help.
 
That’s cool to get the schematic! Thanks kingkorg. I think the R6 and C4 is low pass filters for the k87 style capsule. I believe Telefunken cu29 did the same way to tame the hi frequency as well.
 

Attachments

  • QQ图片20230808175835.png
    QQ图片20230808175835.png
    2 MB · Views: 3
That’s cool to get the schematic! Thanks kingkorg. I think the R6 and C4 is low pass filters for the k87 style capsule. I believe Telefunken cu29 did the same way to tame the hi frequency as well.
I thought that as well, but the circuit is flat, that rc filter is higher in frequency.
 
hi , slightly offtopic, but.. kingkorg, i have one of those without psu here, is it 330v on B+ and 6,3v on heaters? anything to take on consideration for a DIY PSU? thanks
 
hi , slightly offtopic, but.. kingkorg, i have one of those without psu here, is it 330v on B+ and 6,3v on heaters? anything to take on consideration for a DIY PSU? thanks
Yes, 330v b+, 6.3 heater, but please double check how the heater is wired, i don't remember if it's in parallel or series 12v. Anyways it's not underheated.
 
Quick note. I found two MXL 2006 badged mics, ( actually have a 2008 model surface mount interior that looks similar to a 990), they do appear to have these capsules.
One of the capsules has a visible scratch inside but they sound fine.
I have an akai stereo valve psu so, figured it would be a good start for some old school cathode followers.
Thank you for your work. Kind Regards.
 
IIRC, the design was purchased by Manley from a tech for a major studio after the original DIY versions had some popularity on the US west coast.
I remembered who designed it. Steve Hazelton, who also worked on the Sheffield Labs microphone. I’m under the impression that the circuit of the Manley is based on the Sheffield Labs mic, from discussions back then.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top