meet the new boss, same as the old boss

[jsteiger]

Hell if jsteiger can be good pals, anything is possible!

Just what does that mean? Haha. I know. I am glad that most of the folks I know do not let political views get in the way of friendships.

We are on a sad course of destruction in this country. I hope all the liberals realize just what they have gotten all of us into by reelecting BO.

BTW, congrats on the citizenship (my liberal friend) Mr. Mabie!!!

 

[Echo North]

Hell if jsteiger can be good pals, anything is possible!

Just what does that mean? Haha. I know. I am glad that most of the folks I know do not let political views get in the way of friendships.

We are on a sad course of destruction in this country. I hope all the liberals realize just what they have gotten all of us into by reelecting BO.

BTW, congrats on the citizenship (my liberal friend) Mr. Mabie!!!

Thanks!

I know some dudes completely in line with me politically that I can't stand.  Totally d-bags.  I'd rather be friends with good dudes who look out for one another than a political party.  In general, I don't really trust either party anyway.

Edit: Spelling

 

[jsteiger]

In generally, I don't really trust either party anyway.

And this we are 100% in agreement on.  8)

 

[pucho812]

just for that enjoy this selection of the who

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtHshBWFRyg

 

[living sounds]

The youth demographic was not the decisive factor, more likely the latino vote that was larger this time and decidedly voted for Obama.

Actually the youth vote was decisive:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/young-voters-2012-obama_n_2089789.html

 

[jsteiger]

And there you have it. I have a pretty good theory on why the youth of today is so liberal. I would rather not share it though. I don't want to piss anyone off here. I am pretty sure JR and some other folks will have the same reasoning.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The youth demographic was not the decisive factor, more likely the latino vote that was larger this time and decidedly voted for Obama.

Actually the youth vote was decisive:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/young-voters-2012-obama_n_2089789.html

It's remarkable how you can know some much about our elections from such a distance. Isn't the internet wonderful?

OTOH as I said the increasing latino vote that voted 66% for Obama, made a marginal difference in several important swing states. Of course many of the Latinos are also "young".  8)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-usa-campaign-diversity-idUSBRE8A62MO20121108

Of course in a race this close (Obama only got 53%) almost any group could get credit or blame. 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/07/us/politics/obamas-diverse-base-of-support.html

Per the NYT

"Young voters favored President Obama, but less so than in 2008. However, he managed to improve his share of the youth vote in swing states like Ohio, Florida and Virginia where his campaign most actively targeted voters."

"President Obama won the Hispanic vote by 44 percentage points, 8 percentage points more than in 2008. Among the swing states, the president made the biggest gains in Colorado, taking 74 percent of the Hispanic vote, up from 61 percent in 2008. In Florida, President Obama’s gains among Hispanic voters helped him in the state. He won 60 percent of the Hispanic vote, up from 57 percent in 2008 and 44 percent for John Kerry in 2004."


Of course the same data can be parsed different ways.  Young/old, Black/white/other. Just like in macroeconomic studies the experiment has multiple variables that can not be isolated and completely controlled for.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

And there you have it. I have a pretty good theory on why the youth of today is so liberal. I would rather not share it though. I don't want to piss anyone off here. I am pretty sure JR and some other folks will have the same reasoning.

There is an old aphorism that covers this pretty well...

"If a young person is not liberal there is something wrong with their heart. If an older person has experienced life and not been turned conservative by it, there is something wrong with their brain. "

While this is meant to be humorous. there is more than a little truth in it. I vaguely recall being young, once, a very long time ago. 8)


JR

PS: The youth vote is predominantly liberal, however they routinely don't show up, so don't vote as reliably as older people. Putting legalize marijuana initiatives on several state ballots was a powerful motivation to turn out the youth vote.

 

[grantlack]

And there you have it. I have a pretty good theory on why the youth of today is so liberal. I would rather not share it though. I don't want to piss anyone off here. I am pretty sure JR and some other folks will have the same reasoning.

from a young-ish, white, lower-middle class perspective, i think it's more a social/civil liberties choice than anything. i don't know many young voters that care much about the president's position on current foreign policy matters, food stamps, welfare, or even healthcare for that matter.  most that are too young and invariably short-sighted to be impacted by the age deadline.
i'm undoubtedly projecting a bit too-  i'm more a rockafeller republican.  i've never found the reagan party platform particularly responsible in regards to ethics or finances, so the (imo) exclusionist social positions are just icing on the anathema cake for me.  still far from my ideal candidate, but i may consider voting for christie if he ends up the next nominee.  there's something genuinely appealing about a no-nonsense pragmatist.

 

[living sounds]

It's remarkable how you can know some much about our elections from such a distance. Isn't the internet wonderful?

OTOH as I said the increasing latino vote that voted 66% for Obama, made a marginal difference in several important swing states. Of course many of the Latinos are also "young".  8)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-usa-campaign-diversity-idUSBRE8A62MO20121108

Of course in a race this close (Obama only got 53%) almost any group could get credit or blame. 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/07/us/politics/obamas-diverse-base-of-support.html

Per the NYT

"Young voters favored President Obama, but less so than in 2008. However, he managed to improve his share of the youth vote in swing states like Ohio, Florida and Virginia where his campaign most actively targeted voters."

"President Obama won the Hispanic vote by 44 percentage points, 8 percentage points more than in 2008. Among the swing states, the president made the biggest gains in Colorado, taking 74 percent of the Hispanic vote, up from 61 percent in 2008. In Florida, President Obama’s gains among Hispanic voters helped him in the state. He won 60 percent of the Hispanic vote, up from 57 percent in 2008 and 44 percent for John Kerry in 2004."


Of course the same data can be parsed different ways.  Young/old, Black/white/other. Just like in macroeconomic studies the experiment has multiple variables that can not be isolated and completely controlled for.

JR

"We now live in a global village". 

The youth vote as a share of the electorate was up 1% from 2008, and (while less than 2008) went overwhelmingly for Obama. Had they been at 50:50 in the swing states, Romney would have won.

 

[living sounds]

And BTW, in the presidential election and also very much in the house and senate it was women rejecting reactionary big government social policies. At this point GOP may very well stand for "grumpy old men". It will be interesting to see how they adapt to this new reality.

 

[Spiritworks]

And there you have it. I have a pretty good theory on why the youth of today is so liberal. I would rather not share it though. I don't want to piss anyone off here. I am pretty sure JR and some other folks will have the same reasoning.

I bet I would agree............

 

[jsteiger]

"If a young person is not liberal there is something wrong with their heart. If an older person has experienced life and not been turned conservative by it, there is something wrong with their brain. "

Thumbs up! 

 

[JohnRoberts]

And BTW, in the presidential election and also very much in the house and senate it was women rejecting reactionary big government social policies. At this point GOP may very well stand for "grumpy old men". It will be interesting to see how they adapt to this new reality.

While young single women supported Obama, older married women did not buy into the "warfare against women" screed put out by the left. This is not even the worst one of the several rather derogatory mischaracterizations of the right by the left. 

Another parsing of the 2012 vote result shows that more voters elected republicans into the house to not raise taxes, than voted for Obama giving him any mandate to raise taxes.

We all agree that we must do something, but raising taxes alone will not come close to closing the gap, we need to stop the out of control spending increases. Historically we have tolerated modest budget deficits that get covered by healthy economic growth. Now we have both larger deficits and smaller growth (if at all next year). We can not continue on this trajectory. While politicians tend to reduce this to only a two part argument either raise taxes or reduce spending, there is a third factor "growth", that can increase tax revenue (and create jobs, and lots of other good stuff) almost painlessly. But as I argued with a friend at the gym last night, sustainable economic growth doesn't come from government spending, but private sector activity that is currently being damped by uncertainty about future taxes, government regulation, and employee cost. Now at least we know we are stuck with Obama care so the only remaining question about it is how much will that cost us. Since small businesses with under 50 employees get a pass from fines and penalty, I expect to see hiring stop just below that magic 50 employee threshold for many small businesses. If anything this will drive more outsourcing of work, but now by small companies instead of large. This will not be good for creating new jobs at least in that economic sector.   


--------

I got into several interesting discussions at the gymnasium last night (where I play basketball-not the German "gymnasium" which is a secondary school). It is interesting how many people do not understand how even the vote (electoral college) works.

=========
For a better understanding of how the electoral college works, imagine if we held an election here for President of this forum and two people with significantly different views about how to run this place, ran for that office. Out of 100 people who voted, 53 voted for one guy and his way and 47 the other guy and his way.  This is pretty much a toss up, and could go either way in a rope pull tug-of-war, but thanks to the electoral math these votes get lumped together in a winner take all for each sub region, so instead of the near tie, one guy gets credited with 30 electoral votes and the other 20 votes. Now we have what "looks" like a decisive victory, and the losers (like me) acquiesce and accept the leadership choice.

This is a good thing, for keeping voters calm and promoting peaceful government transitions, but it can be a bad thing is if the new elected leader pretends this is a decisive mandate for his policy because it isn't. He narrowly avoided getting thrown out of office by only a few percent. We'll see how they play it.

JR




 

 

[Meathands]

While young single women supported Obama, older married women did not buy into the "warfare against women" screed put out by the left. This is not even the worst one of the several rather derogatory mischaracterizations of the right by the left. 

Why is "the war on women" a mischaracterization? I ask this question in all honesty because I am aware of living in something close to a liberal, feminist echo-chamber. Here's why I ask: Didn't the platform approved at the GOP convention include making abortion illegal with no rape exception? Haven't we heard numerous Republican politicians sound off about rape in ways that came off as deeply unsympathetic to victims recently? Wasn't part of Romney's platform to cut off funding to Planned Parenthood? Let's posit a woman, young or old, who believes in reproductive rights and holds conservative values. Where does she find a place in the Republican party?

 

[jsteiger]

Let's posit a woman, young or old, who believes in reproductive rights and holds conservative values. Where does she find a place in the Republican party?

I must say, I am more liberal when it comes to these issues but very conservative when it comes to how big and how government should function. I can see where women could make these issues a priority.

 

[Meathands]

Let's posit a woman, young or old, who believes in reproductive rights and holds conservative values. Where does she find a place in the Republican party?

I must say, I am more liberal when it comes to these issues but very conservative when it comes to how big and how government should function. I can see where women could make these issues a priority.

That's exactly what's so frustrating about how our country is almost arbitrarily divided among both cultural and political lines. Why , for example, do "pro-life" and "small government" have to go together (when they most certainly don't)?

 

[pucho812]

As uncaring as this sounds, Abortion is a service and it is not the governments job to dictate a service.

 

[Echo North]

I must say, I am more liberal when it comes to these issues but very conservative when it comes to how big and how government should function. I can see where women could make these issues a priority.

Sounds like you're more of a libertarian?

 

[jsteiger]

Sounds like you're more of a libertarian?

If I had a vagina, I might be. 

On the subject, I could also not care if 2 dudes or 2 ladies wanna get hitched. More power to them. I am more concerned that they are functioning, contributing US citizens and not freeloaders. I do not have a problem taking care of those who are disabled and others who cannot care for themselves. I have a MAJOR issue with lazing, non-contributing leaches who choose not to work and live off of government programs that the rest of us pay for.