Out of Control

[sahib]

OK, maybe it just seems complex to me... 

Understandable.

Where I grew up in NJ we had an old Armenian home in my hometown with survivors of the Armenian genocide, that some still deny occurred.

Firstly I must say that, that was a terrible event in Anatolian history. Both sides suffered terribly.

There are  morons who deny that event as some morons deny the Holocaust. But you have to be extremely careful with the word "genocide"

You are probably basing your conclusion on an oral history. But there is a counter oral history from the other side too.

For example, my parents come from Trabzon (though I was born and raised in Istanbul and have never been to Trabzon). When Armenian gangs, dressed by French and armed by Russians were advancing towards my grand parents' village they left everything behind and started a long walk to the next safe village, which was three days away. My (then a young girl) grand mother was carrying her baby sister on her back. The baby died during that walk and my grand mother did not even know it. She carried her dead baby sister for may be two days. This is true. It is not a soft story. My grand mother lived to be 103 years old. I have a photo of my son who was then 2 and my grand ma was 102. A century in between.

So, we have to put the oral history aside for the moment and start working with the facts. And the facts require a through examination of the history. This will be long and very time consuming, though I would happily do so. So, we turn our attention to the word "genocide".

The definition of genocide is that it has to be a written state policy. The Ottoman state (as there was no Turkish republic at that time) has never had such policy and it has never been proven that it ever existed. Let's not forget, British thoroughly investigated this during their occupation in Istanbul and had concluded that there was no such policy. So, I am inviting you to be very careful with the word "genocide".

For the record. One of my best childhood friends was Armenian. Currently one of my best friends (back in Istanbul) with whom I have a telephone conversation at least once a week is Armenian, and my nephew's wife is half Armenian.

I follow Turkey from a distance as they petition to join the EU, and I appreciated their secular government, while they seem to be moving a little less secular these days.

I loathe the current government and the prime minister. It is just a pity that there is no serious alternative.

I was a little disappointed that they didn't allow us to bring armor into iraq from the North that would have made the situation on the ground there a lot more stable.

True. But what would have happened after you left?

It seems there was an issue between turkey and Kurds in northern Iraq about separatists hiding across the border in Kurdistan.

 

The issue still exists. I have nothing against Kurds trying to break away (some of my cousins are half Kurd). But there is a mechanism called referendum. I do not believe in terrorism. My preference though is unity. I would not like Turkey to break up as much as I would not like Britain to break up.

They seem to be a supporter of Hamas, or at least are against Israel, but i understand the anger about when their boat ran the blockade and was boarded. It is generally not a good idea to mess with the Israeli military.

Don't follow that boat. It is a side show. Follow the money.

Sorry I do not pretend to be an expert about Turkey.. I just know what i see and read over the decades.

JR

Nothing to be sorry about. How wonderful it is that we are able to discuss things here in a civilised manner.