Railroad engines...pouring on the coal..literally!

[Brian Roth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OgSNQOTw2U


The EPA is crapping their britches watching the old movies of the giant machines!  <g>

Go look for old movies for Big Boys going up steep grades in the Rockies...WOW...our little studio world is SO small...lol.

Bri

PS... A Studer/Otari/Ampex/MCI seems really wimpy..lol.

 

[rob_gould]

Cool!  Magnificent engineering.

I used to love trains as a kid.  Spent many a happy day here

http://www.nrm.org.uk/

 

[pucho812]

magnificent, what a wonderful piece of machinery from yesteryear.  I am sure the EPA  would grandfather that in. Seems to happen with laws.  But wow that was great. 

OH and have you seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXcD6ZdPR9k

 

[ruffrecords]

I am lucky enough to live at one end of The Poppy Line where steam trains run regularly. My good lady and I are life members.

http://www.nnrailway.co.uk/steamlocos.php

Cheers

ian

 

[sahib]

Beautiful.

Spent an hour watching other links.

 

[Rocinante]

I hopped trains for roughly 8 years on and off in my youth and was fortunate enough to travel with great friends for a time. I had been in music school at an early age and was struggling to keep up and not very happy. The punk band I was in played in NY's Lower East Side often enough and outside the clubs (cause I was to young to be indoors unless I was on stage) I met a bunch of hobos my age who convinced me to drop out and ride the rails.
I did and I fell in love.
There is no way to describe the feeling of riding on top of a 48 or grainer through Washington state up to Vancouver as this massive Shai Halud like 2 mile long snake of metal and steel and unimaginable power pulls you along at 60+ mph.
Needless to say for some of us its highly addictive.
Once on my way from SF to Matzalan I caught a steam engine for a 100 miles. The short trip was the loudest but smoothest ride I ever rode.  It actually felt alive.  Such beautiful engineering. 

 

[rob_gould]

I hopped trains for roughly 8 years on and off in my youth and was fortunate enough to travel with great friends for a time. I had been in music school at an early age and was struggling to keep up and not very happy. The punk band I was in played in NY's Lower East Side often enough and outside the clubs (cause I was to young to be indoors unless I was on stage) I met a bunch of hobos my age who convinced me to drop out and ride the rails.
I did and I fell in love.
There is no way to describe the feeling of riding on top of a 48 or grainer through Washington state up to Vancouver as this massive Shai Halud like 2 mile long snake of metal and steel and unimaginable power pulls you along at 60+ mph.
Needless to say for some of us its highly addictive.
Once on my way from SF to Matzalan I caught a steam engine for a 100 miles. The short trip was the loudest but smoothest ride I ever rode.  It actually felt alive.  Such beautiful engineering.

Wow!  Amazing!

May I ask how long ago that was?  I always thought that train hopping was something from the first half of the 20th Century only, but I saw these photos doing the rounds a couple of years ago which made it clear that this sub culture still exists...

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/mar/30/mike-brodie-juvenile-train-rider-photos-interview

More photos : http://www.theplaidzebra.com/train-hopping/

 

[Rocinante]

The heyday was the late 90s and i am  fortunately still in touch with many friends from that  subculture (of crusties) to ghis day.
It was large enough for one to not know everyone but small enough that one could find out who anyone was.
You become very close to whomever your riding with (riding alone is a bad idea) and the relationshipa formed are forever.  Unfortunately there's enough insane people out there that coupled with the dangerous nature of hopping trains also leads to some violence which makes the bond even tighter between partners (road dogs).
There is also something about those who have road the rails sharing the common understanding and experience.  Its unlike anything in the world and those who know what its like understand that.  Also usually the best place to hop out in a train yard is also the worst part of the city. 
People still ride but its not nearly as large as it was in the mid-late 90's. When i finally stopped i was lucky enough to join a band that just signed to a decent sized label and toured 3/4 of the year.
Good way to adjust to a more 'normal' life.  If i didn't have a studio I'd  definitely have a model train i could tweak on and luckily where i work we do. Takes care of that itch.

 

[rob_gould]

Thanks

 

[ruffrecords]

@Rocinante

That has GOT to be a movie.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Rocinante]

Ive got stories. I certainly do. But they pale in comparison to some of my friends. I have a buddy who was on a train that derailed on top and over and around him. One second just staring at the stars dreaming, the next on rocks in darkness followed by the train rolling over him as he knelt in the safety of the 48 (its the freight car that holds the cargo containers that trucks and ships use). He then watched the several mile long freight train roll like a log down a mountain crushing trees, houses, anything, and continue for hundreds of meters. The noise was literally deafening as he was partially deaf for weeks afterwards.
He owns a coffee shop now. And does metal work for burning man.  What a world.

 

[gltech]

Trains are so great. My grandmother's house was close to tracks, and I grew up mesmerized by them. What a tech marvel.

In this video of the SD70ACe (originally built by EMD -- which Cat bought), at 2:42 the guy says it can move a ton 500 miles on a gallon of diesel. I realize that's collectively, but can that be right? I know railroads are already the most efficient cargo movers on land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmlg_DERFrg

I really want to drive that thing.

Wow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZN5tYIBvlA

 

[JohnRoberts]

Trains are so great. My grandmother's house was close to tracks, and I grew up mesmerized by them. What a tech marvel.

In this video of the SD70ACe (originally built by EMD -- which Cat bought), at 2:42 the guy says it can move a ton 500 miles on a gallon of diesel. I realize that's collectively, but can that be right?

Actual average is over 400 miles with some rail lines as high as 500 miles per gallon.

Steel wheels don't flex like rubber tires and waste energy. All the rail cars are in a single line following each other so don't experience full wind resistance (like race cars drafting each other). The engines running at steady speed can be more efficient. 

FWIW Trucks on the highway could be made more efficient if allowed to draft each other (possible with computer driven trucks). Tire inflation could be increased to reduce their rolling resistance for straight line travel. Traction suffers from high inflation pressure, so this would have to be adjusted dynamically with self inflating tires that can respond to road conditions. Trucks will never get as good as trains but could get a bunch better than they are.

JR

I know railroads are already the most efficient cargo movers on land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmlg_DERFrg

I really want to drive that thing.

Wow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZN5tYIBvlA

 

[gltech]

Actual average is over 400 miles with some rail lines as high as 500 miles per gallon.

Wow that's really remarkable.

The engines running at steady speed can be more efficient.

Yes, afforded by the virtually flat grades that sometimes took great efforts to realize, and that really pay off in the long run.

It would be cool if somebody came up with an easy way for cars and trucks making mostly the same longer trips to hook together for the common part of the haul to get some of the advantages trains have. Well, if you didn't have to worry about the stranger in the lead unit driving you off a cliff.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Actual average is over 400 miles with some rail lines as high as 500 miles per gallon.

Wow that's really remarkable.

The engines running at steady speed can be more efficient.

Yes, afforded by the virtually flat grades that sometimes took great efforts to realize, and that really pay off in the long run.

While the locomotive works a little harder when first climbing a hill, it gets that (potential) energy back when coming down the other side of the hill. If the train is long enough the cars on the downhill side cancel the weight of the cars on the uphill side.

It would be cool if somebody came up with an easy way for cars and trucks making mostly the same longer trips to hook together for the common part of the haul to get some of the advantages trains have. Well, if you didn't have to worry about the stranger in the lead unit driving you off a cliff.

I think this makes more sense for trucks than cars, while I'd like to see even more use of rails for long haul heavy freight. Trucks would still get used for the last mile(s).

Trucks could form up into fairly stable convoys. Unless we give them the far left lane, there would have to be regular gaps to let local traffic through. While trucks could enjoy the wind resistance benefit, without mechanical coupling they can't enjoy the economies of using one motor to pull several trucks. 

Computer controlled car traffic could eliminate the typical traffic jams from humans speeding up and slowing down. Cars with computers that talk to each other could help get more traffic through existing highway infrastructure more efficiently and in less time.

I recall a friend (back in the '70s) working on early use of air dams/wings mounted to the roof of tractor trailer cabs to reduce wind resistance. Single trucks also experience drag from turbulence at the rear of the trailer box. Some long haul trucks have an airfoil that inflates and extends out from the back of the trailer creating a more aerodynamic shape to reduce turbulence and drag.

  JR

 

[Gene Pink]

It would be cool if somebody came up with an easy way for cars and trucks making mostly the same longer trips to hook together for the common part of the haul to get some of the advantages trains have. Well, if you didn't have to worry about the stranger in the lead unit driving you off a cliff.

A while back, we went over this very topic at our weekly" think tank" meetings. (translation: a bunch of people from all disciplines, solving the world's problems, and drinking beer. Mostly drinking beer.)

We came up with a hinged towbar on the front of a car,  remotely controlled to swing down from vertical to horizontal out in front of the car. But instead of a hitch, an array of really strong magnets at the tip.

Sneak up behind some unsuspecting semi trailer going your way, extend the magnets, and close the distance until you latch onto something steel. Slip it into neutral, shut off the motor, and relax. (bad for automatic transmissions since the '50s, no rear pump for lubrication while being towed. Standard trannys are fine.)

Time to disengage, just hit the brakes hard and "brake" free of your tow. Yank yourself off, as it were.

Never built, but we had some sketches, and settled on hydraulic control of lifting the towbar snowplow style, as a snowplow setup has a valve position that allows it to freefloat to make up for road humps/bumps.

Gene

 

[JohnRoberts]

It would be cool if somebody came up with an easy way for cars and trucks making mostly the same longer trips to hook together for the common part of the haul to get some of the advantages trains have. Well, if you didn't have to worry about the stranger in the lead unit driving you off a cliff.

A while back, we went over this very topic at our weekly" think tank" meetings. (translation: a bunch of people from all disciplines, solving the world's problems, and drinking beer. Mostly drinking beer.)

We came up with a hinged towbar on the front of a car,  remotely controlled to swing down from vertical to horizontal out in front of the car. But instead of a hitch, an array of really strong magnets at the tip.

Sneak up behind some unsuspecting semi trailer going your way, extend the magnets, and close the distance until you latch onto something steel. Slip it into neutral, shut off the motor, and relax. (bad for automatic transmissions since the '50s, no rear pump for lubrication while being towed. Standard trannys are fine.)

Time to disengage, just hit the brakes hard and "brake" free of your tow. Yank yourself off, as it were.

Never built, but we had some sketches, and settled on hydraulic control of lifting the towbar snowplow style, as a snowplow setup has a valve position that allows it to freefloat to make up for road humps/bumps.

Gene

Some ideas look best through beer goggles....

JR

 

[PRR]

> a snowplow setup has a valve position that allows it to freefloat

Do you even have snowplows down there?

I do. Yes, it floats.

I will assume magnets strong enough to hold a slipstreamed car on any stray steel it hits will not be a lot lighter than my plow, and the arm will be similar.

When I lift the plow, this full size extended wheelbase extra-duty K2500 pickup truck loses weight on the rear wheels VERY noticeably. It is a real bear to drive on the road with the plow attached.

Yes, a heavy unloaded pickup is tail-light. But so are all the cars we drive now.

There's probably no "nice car" with the frame structure to support a real snowplow (or semi sucker).

I think a speargun. Spears so cheap you just leave it in the other guy's rear and cut the rope to get away.

 

[Gene Pink]

> Do you even have snowplows down there?

No.

I spent the first 30 years of my life in central New Jersey, and in between real jobs, working for a good friend at his full service gas station. We had wreckers, and they all had plows on them, two that I installed, We had many snow removal contracts. I have plowed my share of snow. Topping off hydraulics, rigging tire chains the day before a snowstorm is expected, twenty-hour day-night-days, stuck cars blocking access, gotta clear all the lots before the 24 hour guarantee was up. Fun fun fun. And then, having to pull a tranny to replace a clutch disc, pressure plate and deal with a flywheel that is warped beyond recutting  because one of the drivers was clueless. That's how I met Wally Dallenback, he had an aluminum  racing flywheel with a cast iron insert for a Ford 351 cleveland motor for sale for twenty bucks, but that's another story.

In a way, I kinda miss that life, primordial, basic, rewarding to the soul. Doing the good work.


> I will assume magnets strong enough to hold a slipstreamed car on any stray steel it hits will not be a lot lighter than my plow, and the arm will be similar.

PRR, while I have read your posts here and have a high regard for your knowledge, I must disagree with this.

A 3 x 1/4" channel structure for a real plow weighs a lot more than the 1-1/2 sq. x 1/16" necessary here. And a 500lbs plow weighs more then the ~50lbs magnet structure necessary.  And the magnet weight isn't on you,  it is on the semi's suspension, as is half of the towbar weight.

A semi can't accelerate quick at speed, maybe  1/10G,, so a 3000lb car only needs better than 300lb of stick-to, to stay stuck-to.

A half dozen ceramic magnets with return pole pieces culled from speakers can do this, and even less weight if technology is borrowed from multi-pole magnetic clamps.

Better yet is one of those Acme brand magnets that the Coyote tries to use in some way to catch the Road-Runner, after he tricks him into eating steel buckshot.


> There's probably no "nice car" with the frame structure to support a real snowplow (or semi sucker).

I beg to differ on this, too, as the owner o.f several 1970 cadillacs. With a ring and pinion gear change,  they will outpush some of the towtruck/plows I used to drive. Nothing wimpy about 400lbs/foot of torque at the crankshaft when geared down to plow-pushing range, with a frame to match.

> I think a speargun. Spears so cheap you just leave it in the other guy's rear and cut the rope to get away.

Tagging a ride as a stowaway is one thing, but poking holes in another vehicle might be frowned upon by the authorities. and leaves behind evidence. Plus, it would be rude. Our way, nobody even knows you were there.

[/sillyness]

Gene

 

[PRR]

> the magnet weight isn't on you

It is when NOT semi-sucking. It's high over your hood.

> 1/16" necessary

A truck will *brake* over 0.5G. Since they all have ABS now (since 1996), 0.8G is possible on the best surfaces. Yes, this is relieved when you get on your brakes (or your brake control kicks in), but there will be a lag. Pretty-near the full weight of your car "standing" on 1/16" tube? Plus if the semi is braking hard for a real problem, it may be moving-over in its lane, side-forces.

> owner of several 1970 cadillacs

Point granted. (1970-1979 BIG Fords and Chevies also had substantial framework.)