Tiny Neutrik NTE10/3 transformer for microphone output 10:1 for tube and FET

[Matador]

I have measured multiple transformers (10:1) from Apex 460 microphones.
They are not screened, but the frequency response is excellent! (20 Hz - 40 KHz within less than 1 dB)

I have never seen any 10:1 transformers in Apex 460's.  The stock value is closer to 5:1 since it is a CCDA design.

Or did I misunderstand you?

 

[ln76d]

I didn't measured apex transformers but different ccda like t.bone are also 10:1.

 

[RuudNL]

I have never seen any 10:1 transformers in Apex 460's.  The stock value is closer to 5:1 since it is a CCDA design.

I measure a step-down in voltage of 20 dB, so that would mean a 10:1 ratio!
(Generator impedance = 50 Ohms to drive the High-Z winding.)
Maybe they changed the transformer ratio?

 

[Gus]

IIRC the ones I measured in  Nady 1050s were about 10:1

 

[Rossi]

You will have to make a kit to get any attention

I don't do kits. In fact, I liked this place better before everyone and their sister did "paint by number" kits. I like experimenting, and those small, inexpensive neutrik transformers are ideal for that. Once you've accomplished something good sounding, you can always make a better version with more expensive components.

I agree with RuudNL that the NTE 10/3 is not necessarily better than the transformers you find in Chinese mics.

In fact it is
Reason one - they are small, you can use it in really small circuits or just any circuits

If you want low distortion at high levels, a small core won't do. A small transformer may distort even at medium levels, if the signal contains a lot of low end.

And that's the second reason! Small core transformers usual add a little coloration!
That's why i love small trannies like beyer, sennheiser, some haufe and now neutrik (which probably also is haufe).

I'd be surprised if Neutrik transformers were made by Haufe. Do you have a source for that? But Haufe do make (nicer) small transformers which you can buy from Bürklin. They're more expensive, though.

Transformer distortion is not nice. That's just an urban legend. Transformer distortion is predominantly uneven harmonics, and with most core materials it's not very gradual but rises quite fast above a certain level. When a transformer saturates, it sounds "stuffed." It's a terrible, pathetically "small" sound. Also, when low frequencies saturate the core, the entire signal gets distorted, not just the low frequencies. With microphones you have to factor in structure borne noise, rumble and pops which contain a lot of low frequency energy. So there are good reasons why most manufacturers prefer to use larger transformers.

 

[ln76d]

I don't do kits. In fact, I liked this place better before everyone and their sister did "paint by number" kits. I like experimenting, and those small, inexpensive neutrik transformers are ideal for that. Once you've accomplished something good sounding, you can always make a better version with more expensive components.

It was only joke with a tiny drop of irony 
I also prefer before kit era

I'd be surprised if Neutrik transformers were made by Haufe. Do you have a source for that? But Haufe do make (nicer) small transformers which you can buy from Bürklin. They're more expensive, though.

No. As i wrote - urban legend - but i heard that from few people not related to each other. One  was neutrik distributor salesman.
Anyway it's not confirmed. To be honest don't care, chinese can even make it
Do you have any link to buerklin haufe offer? I couldn't find on their web store...
Why do you think that these are "nicer"? Did you make any comparison or something?
Most small haufe which i had were really good but nothing exciting, anything beyond average industrial standard.

Transformer distortion is not nice. That's just an urban legend. Transformer distortion is predominantly uneven harmonics, and with most core materials it's not very gradual but rises quite fast above a certain level. When a transformer saturates, it sounds "stuffed." It's a terrible, pathetically "small" sound. Also, when low frequencies saturate the core, the entire signal gets distorted, not just the low frequencies. With microphones you have to factor in structure borne noise, rumble and pops which contain a lot of low frequency energy. So there are good reasons why most manufacturers prefer to use larger transformers.

Ok, so i need to ask
Do you follow urban legends when stating any opinions about specific equipment or parts?
Me not
I never get any " "stuffed." It's a terrible, pathetically "small" sound".
Did you found this during any tests?
Obviously low frequencies saturating core affects whole spectrum. Most difference i found in highs and hi-midrange area.
My experience is that with overall high levels saturation was rather pleasant and truly noticeable. Usual when i have option to test transformers with a pair of microphones am making A/B comparison. Even sometimes "blind tests".
Loud sources are best for that
Even if the ratio is the same also inductances matters and for small transformers are typically lower.

 

[Rossi]

I'm sorry, I confused Haufe with Pikatron (they're actually from the same village):

https://www.buerklin.com/en/mikrofon-uebertrager/p/80c784

 

[ln76d]

Thanks!

Pikatron are also good transformers

 

[iprovlek]

Thanks!

Pikatron are also good transformers

Yes they are, but no for tubes mics!!!

Lacks of low freq....

 

[iprovlek]

I tried UP3094M, UP3095M and UP3096M (1:5, 1:10, 1:15)!

 

[ln76d]

These from buerklin i didn't  tried i had few old and were linear.
Yeah, datasheet shows band 40Hz-20kHz, so Neutrik wins here, but it could be really great for  vocal microphone.
By occasion i will order few and try

 

[micaddict]

Acoustic guitar? 

 

[iprovlek]

These from buerklin i didn't  tried i had few old and were linear.
Yeah, datasheet shows band 40Hz-20kHz, so Neutrik wins here, but it could be really great for  vocal microphone.
By occasion i will order few and try

Ill buy it and try with my tubes mics!!!

But think that Neutrik wins here...

 

[Rossi]

Thanks!

Pikatron are also good transformers

Yes they are, but no for tubes mics!!!

Lacks of low freq....

Well, frequency response for any transformer depends on the circuit. Your driving impedance must have been too high or you inadvertendly used them step up instead of step down.  Those small pikatron have quite high inductance (much higher than the tiny Neutriks), so bass response should be excellent, if used correctly.

 

[ln76d]

Well, frequency response for any transformer depends on the circuit. Your driving impedance must have been too high or you inadvertendly used them step up instead of step down.  Those small pikatron have quite high inductance (much higher than the tiny Neutriks), so bass response should be excellent, if used correctly.

Not here, if spec says 40Hz-20kHz +/-0.5dB, we don't know what's below 40Hz - at least if someone will not measure it
You can always try to boost low end but the result would be weak.
With pikatron and neutrik there's no inductance spec. If you didn't opened pikatron, we don't now what sits inside.
Can is standard for pikatron in this series but  transformer can be really small inside (it's often in some old trannies).
Also can isn't so big, it's only 18 x 14.5 x 13.1

 

[Matador]

IIRC the ones I measured in  Nady 1050s were about 10:1

Good to know!  They must have changed them at some point (I never measure them anymore, just remove them).

 

[ln76d]

There were for some time, over the web, some bulls**t stories about ccda circuits as it have really low impedances before the transformer, since it look like cathode follower etc. If someone will calculate impedance with online tube circuits calculators - yes it's really low but in fact it isn't. There is somewhere here my topic where PRR (if i remember corectly) made calculation for the output impedance. Impedance in the most of these circuits is rather high.
I tried in stock circuits low ratio transformers and the lowest which works well was 6.3:1.
I was hoping to mod some ccda to use 12at7 and 3:1 transformer but i couldn't go lower than 6.3:1.
Always sucks

 

[Rossi]

Well, frequency response for any transformer depends on the circuit. Your driving impedance must have been too high or you inadvertendly used them step up instead of step down.  Those small pikatron have quite high inductance (much higher than the tiny Neutriks), so bass response should be excellent, if used correctly.

Not here, if spec says 40Hz-20kHz +/-0.5dB, we don't know what's below 40Hz - at least if someone will not measure it
You can always try to boost low end but the result would be weak.
With pikatron and neutrik there's no inductance spec. If you didn't opened pikatron, we don't now what sits inside.
Can is standard for pikatron in this series but  transformer can be really small inside (it's often in some old trannies).
Also can isn't so big, it's only 18 x 14.5 x 13.1

I mentioned those Pikatrons, because they're small (but nicer than Neutriks).
I don't remember the values, but I measured both the neutriks and the Pikatrons, and the latter had much higher inductance. And high inductance is what you need for excellent bass response, that's just physics.

"40Hz-20kHz +/-0.5dB" just means it is flat within that range when used within the given parameters.

When you read transformer specs, you have to be aware that this is just a snapshot of its performance under certain conditions (which should be given but often aren't). As I said, the driving  impedance is crucial. In most cases, the data sheeet doesn't really say a lot, you have to make your own measurements. To evaluate various transformers, it's a good idea to make measurements at various impedances so you can optimize your circuit or vice versa find suitable transformers for a given circuit.


The main drawback of both the NTE Neutriks and those small Pikatrons is the limited level handling. The NTE 10/3 is spec'd at -6 dBu maximum input level for 50 Hz, 1% THD. That's roughly what a high sensitivity LD condenser capsule puts out at 115-120 dB SPL. However, 50 Hz is a higher than usual measurement frequency. At 30 Hz (which is a more usual measurement frequency) its level capability is likely much lower. Also 1% is on the higher side of distortion specs, and if you look at the curve for the bigger Neutriks (there is none for the NTE series), distortion rises very, very fast. (see attachment)

The Pikatrons, being similar sized, aren't much better in terms of level handling.

 

[iprovlek]

I used them step down Rossi...

 

[ln76d]

I mentioned those Pikatrons, because they're small (but nicer than Neutriks).
I don't remember the values, but I measured both the neutriks and the Pikatrons, and the latter had much higher inductance. And high inductance is what you need for excellent bass response, that's just physics.

"40Hz-20kHz +/-0.5dB" just means it is flat within that range when used within the given parameters.

When you read transformer specs, you have to be aware that this is just a snapshot of its performance under certain conditions (which should be given but often aren't). As I said, the driving  impedance is crucial. In most cases, the data sheeet doesn't really say a lot, you have to make your own measurements. To evaluate various transformers, it's a good idea to make measurements at various impedances so you can optimize your circuit or vice versa find suitable transformers for a given circuit.


The main drawback of both the NTE Neutriks and those small Pikatrons is the limited level handling. The NTE 10/3 is spec'd at -6 dBu maximum input level for 50 Hz, 1% THD. That's roughly what a high sensitivity LD condenser capsule puts out at 115-120 dB SPL. However, 50 Hz is a higher than usual measurement frequency. At 30 Hz (which is a more usual measurement frequency) its level capability is likely much lower. Also 1% is on the higher side of distortion specs, and if you look at the curve for the bigger Neutriks (there is none for the NTE series), distortion rises very, very fast. (see attachment)

The Pikatrons, being similar sized, aren't much better in terms of level handling.

That's why i always measure transformer response  and then measure response of the preamp where it sits. It's obvious that manufacturer specs are usual poor and made in specific condition.
You need also remember that not every stup up transformer works the same as a step down. Sometimes it give nice coloration due to some frequency drop, sometimes not. Usual transformers which i used, where frequency was stated from 30-70Hz had a drop, some around 2-5dB near the corner frequency and some much higher. And am referring to the measured response not manufacturer specs.
I wouldn't be surprised if NTL and NTM had inside NTE transformers.
Pikatron datasheet says </=0.5% for 40Hz but 200mV (looks good on the paper ).
Not bad but at 1V it would be probably similar to neutrik.