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Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2020, 10:29:26 PM »
Class A 24V, high end summing mixer, keeps blowing up.

Phoenix Audio Nicerizer?

Gustav

Had 2 units, they blew one after the other  in the  old studio I worked in.
Kepted changing the OpAmps, what a mess.
Highly unreliable units

A lot of mixing downtime in the studio, it was hard, everything improved once those units were removed from the mixing setup


abbey road d enfer

Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2020, 08:04:43 AM »
Don't know whether it would be an issue or not but (if you ask me) it's totally unethical.
Passing knowledge is far from unethical; making profit of it is.
Sometimes it's for the greater good; I've seen several cases where a patent has been granted and it is obvious that there is no real innovation in it. Quite often a patent is granted for a design variation that is implicit but the original patentee has not deemed necessary or failed to cover. Often the patent attorney's fault.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.

Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2020, 02:21:24 PM »
Going through the effort of patenting a class A discrete op-amp to be used in high end audio products would be a complete waste of money in my opinion.  Whether this particular company have actually done it, I don't know.  But I'd guess not.   

If a patent exists, once you decipher the attorney's convoluted language, it's usually fairly easy to figure out what's going on, since the patent is supposed to describe exactly that.

It's perfectly OK to share knowledge but not OK to profit from someone else's intellectual property.   



 
Jeffrey Toobin: "This is the most embarrassing week ever."

Rudy Giuliani: "Hold my pants..."

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Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2020, 09:52:16 AM »
It's perfectly OK to share knowledge but not OK to profit from someone else's intellectual property.

+1

Specially so in situations like this were the equipment will fail because of a bad design decision and the original company doesn't exist any longer

All the Nicerizer I know in my country are in need of repair

gyraf

Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2020, 03:56:43 AM »
so the threat of legal action is really just for stopping you finding out how crappy their design is in the first place..  ;D
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

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Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2020, 09:56:11 PM »
so the threat of legal action is really just for stopping you finding out how crappy their design is in the first place..  ;D

Basically.

I really liked the sound of those units to be honest, but opamps failed like crazy, we were on tight mixing deadlines, at a point I didnt really know what would happen when I open the last mix, had stereo imbalances, instruments cutting in and out, a huge mess.
The Phoenix UK company were quick enough to reply and sent the Opamps for free, they didn't even acknowledge what was going on just "we will send you 4 opamps for free" guess the client will just chill in not giving bad reputation. I did that myself thinking "such nice people" which might be true but the real reason was that all units in the market were falling and they didn't want a lot of online noise about the subject.

I don't think I still have one of the older burned Opamps, I will search around, if I find one I will remove the epoxy and draw the schematic and publish it so I can help other people.

Gladly I moved on and I'm really happy with the protools summing and don't have to deal with that any longer



ruffrecords

Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2020, 05:17:59 AM »
I am confused. If the company no longer exists how can they threaten legal action?

As I mentioned before, If you can contact them I would simply ask them for the patent number - after all that IS public domain information.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

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Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2020, 05:35:34 PM »
I am confused. If the company no longer exists how can they threaten legal action?

As I mentioned before, If you can contact them I would simply ask them for the patent number - after all that IS public domain information.

Cheers

Ian

I think the "legal action threats" were just used as a deterrent, just as when the boat is sinking people trey the most ridiculous thinks even though they dont make sense and will not work.

Anyway Phoenix still exists, there was a company in the US that bought "Phoenix UK" and now that company is "Phoenix USA".
They don't use the same "always fail Opamps" though

ruffrecords

Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2020, 06:36:13 PM »
I think the "legal action threats" were just used as a deterrent, just as when the boat is sinking people trey the most ridiculous thinks even though they dont make sense and will not work.

Anyway Phoenix still exists, there was a company in the US that bought "Phoenix UK" and now that company is "Phoenix USA".
They don't use the same "always fail Opamps" though

So what was the actual name of the company that said it owned a patent on the circuit? Knowing that we could do a patent search and see if they did or not. If they did we could see the patent and the circuit. If they did not then there is no problem for the OP to publish the schematic.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

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Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2020, 09:04:29 PM »
So what was the actual name of the company that said it owned a patent on the circuit?

I have no idea really.
I think somewhere on this thread there's the name of circuit the designer.

I doubt there's any patent on the Opamp circuit



ruffrecords

Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2020, 04:35:19 PM »
I have no idea really.
I think somewhere on this thread there's the name of circuit the designer.

I doubt there's any patent on the Opamp circuit

Yes, someone mentioned the designer was David Rees, who is ex Neve and Audix and who knows where else. I did a patent search on his name and it came up blank so like you I suspect there is not patent. Publish and be damned I say.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

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Re: Discrete Opamp Patented? How to check!
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2020, 09:14:21 AM »
There's no patent at all, and for the sake of helping other people fixing their bogged opamps of an expensive machine it would be great if the people that did the reverse engineer post the schematic