Which wires to choose?

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ejod

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
22
I know this has been asked before but wanted to ask from your experience and get all in one clear post.

there are many properties for a wire (insulation, gauge, material, tinned, thin copper strings\thick steel strings etc'), please help me understand the importance of each.

1. what is the recommended specs for low voltage wires?

2. when I actually get a wire in hand, what is the criteria for knowing if it's a good one or not.

3.  how important it is (if at all) to have high quality wires?

4. is there any advantage\disadvantage to swirl the wires together? I assume when there is ground it makes sense as shielding. but if I don't have ground? only two wires (like in DC input or instrument jack)?


Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
 
Wire is like the pipes used in plumbing..

#1 just like a pipe you don't want to leak electricity so insulation needs to be adequate. (not much of an issue for low voltage, just don't use bare wire).

#2 gauge- just like pipe the wire should be sized for the expected current flow. Ohms law will predict voltage drop vs wire resistance, again generally not an issue for low voltage signal levels.

#3 Strength/flexibility. Solid wire is brittle and will break if flexed too many times, stranded wire will be more robust for typical projects.

Generic small signal hook-up can use wire gauges in the range of 20 gauge to 24 gauge, while there are no hard and fast rules.

JR
 
> Wire is like the pipes used in plumbing..

EXCEPT-- pipes cost real money. I just buried $130 of sewer pipe for a lousy 65 feet.

Wire for small audio is trivially cheap. In home-scale audio we rarely run 65 feet, nor have to carry large chunks.

Being cheap, it is often about "what can I get easily?" If you know a network technician, scrap-ends CAT5/6 cable is good for much internal wiring. Note JR's comment- solid is a penny cheaper but stranded holds-up better in toss-around (or bad road tour) life; net cable comes both ways.
 
I'm a little late to this thread but I like using 600V teflon-coated silver plated wire, which I get from Steve at Apex Jr, or Bulkwire.com. Yeah, fancy, but it solders very easily, and you can't burn the insulation with your soldering iron (I hate that!). It's a bear to strip, unless you have a thermal stripper (which I do, and she's gorgeous...my um, wire stripper I mean).

But yeah if you're looking for junk wire on the cheap I'm sure the other sources mentioned would be cool.
 
Phrazemaster said:
I'm a little late to this thread but I like using 600V teflon-coated silver plated wire, which I get from Steve at Apex Jr, or Bulkier.com. Yeah, fancy, but it solders very easily, and you can't burn the insulation with your soldering iron (I hate that!). It's a bear to strip, unless you have a thermal stripper (which I do, and she's gorgeous...my um, wire stripper I mean).

But yeah if you're looking for junk wire on the cheap I'm sure the other sources mentioned would be cool.
Same.  I've used just about every type I could find and have ultimately settled on silver-teflon for the low voltage sections.  I get mine from ebay seller 'Navships'.  I don't know if his is reasonably priced or not but I really love the super-thin, extremely rugged 600v insulation on his wire, and the way the heavy plating keeps the strands from splaying out when stripping or bending around a terminal.  It's different than some others I've tried.  I think the cost of silver-teflon isn't as big a deal as the effort/time but the fact that it goes in place, stays, insulation doesn't burn, and de-solders cleanly when necessary makes it well worth the cost and time for me.  I hate futzing with copper strands.
I use a bare razor blade to strip it by cutting away some insulation to expose the wire, popping it out of the insulation, and clipping the empty portion of insulation.  The kind I use stays whole and the strands don't spread.
 
single strand sure makes wiring a big project a breeze, fragile?  Ampeg V4 is packed with single  strand, yet to see a busted wire, and this amp is used for bass a lot, must be quality wire,

now a chassis that uses wire wrap? pretty brittle, undo a few posts on a Marantz 2330 and tell me what happens?  supposed to be more dependable that solder, used by Nasa in the old days, go figure,

wiki wiki>

Wire wrap is a method to construct electronic circuit boards. Electronic components mounted on an insulating board are interconnected by lengths of insulated wire run between their terminals, with the connections made by wrapping several turns around a component lead or a socket pin. Wires can be wrapped by hand or by machine, and can be hand-modified afterwards. It was popular for large-scale manufacturing in the 60s and early 70s, and continues to be used for short runs and prototypes. The method eliminates the design and fabrication of a printed circuit board. Wire wrapping is unusual among other prototyping technologies since it allows for complex assemblies to be produced by automated equipment, but then easily repaired or modified by hand.
Manual wire wrapping/stripping tool and wire in various colours
Wire stripper for AWG 30
Mechanical wire wrap tool
Electrical wire wrap tool
Manual tool to open a wire wrap connection

Wire wrap construction can produce assemblies which are more reliable than printed circuits: connections are less prone to fail due to vibration or physical stresses on the base board, and the lack of solder precludes soldering faults such as corrosion, cold joints and dry joints. The connections themselves are firmer and have lower electrical resistance due to cold welding of the wire to the terminal post at the corners.

Wire wrap was used for assembly of high frequency prototypes and small production runs, including gigahertz microwave circuits and super computers. It is unique among automated prototyping techniques in that wire lengths can be exactly controlled, and twisted pairs or magnetically shielded twisted quads can be routed together.

Wire wrap construction became popular around 1960 in circuit board manufacturing, and use has now sharply declined. Surface-mount technology has made the technique much less useful than in previous decades. Solder-less breadboards and the decreasing cost of professionally made PCBs have nearly eliminated this technology.

A correctly made wire-wrap connection is seven turns of bare wire with half to one and a half turns of insulated wire at the bottom for strain relief.[1] The square hard-gold-plated post thus forms 28 redundant contacts. The silver-plated wire coating cold-welds to the gold. If corrosion occurs, it occurs on the outside of the wire, not on the gas-tight contact where oxygen cannot penetrate to form oxides. A correctly designed wire-wrap tool applies up to twenty tons of force per square inch on each joint.

The electronic parts sometimes plug into sockets. The sockets are attached with cyanoacrylate (or silicone adhesive) to thin plates of glass-fiber-reinforced epoxy (fiberglass).

The sockets have square posts. The usual posts are 0.025 in (0.64 mm) square, 1 in (25.4 mm) high, and spaced at 0.1 in (2.54 mm) intervals. Premium posts are hard-drawn beryllium copper alloy plated with a 0.000025 in (630 nm) of gold to prevent corrosion. Less-expensive posts are bronze with tin plating.
The two holes at the end of a manual wire wrap tool. The wire goes in the one near the edge, and the post is inserted into the hole in the center

30 gauge silver-plated soft copper wire is insulated with a fluorocarbon that does not emit dangerous gases when heated. The most common insulation is "Kynar".
 

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Maybe has something to do with the silver plating...

I've got a tool to do it by hand, quite usefull for prototyping a few connections but the tool I have is too big to fit nicely in 0.1" pin heads more than twice in a row. I've yet to find one that fits, the alternative is to modify the one I have or build a new one. For prototyping I just use UTP/phone wire, the wire wrap wire isn't so easy to find in my location but is available if you look enough. I don't know the quality of that wire or the "gold" contacts we have compared to the ones used in the moon...

JS
 
PRR said:
> Wire is like the pipes used in plumbing..

EXCEPT-- pipes cost real money. I just buried $130 of sewer pipe for a lousy 65 feet.

Wire for small audio is trivially cheap. In home-scale audio we rarely run 65 feet, nor have to carry large chunks.

Being cheap, it is often about "what can I get easily?" If you know a network technician, scrap-ends CAT5/6 cable is good for much internal wiring. Note JR's comment- solid is a penny cheaper but stranded holds-up better in toss-around (or bad road tour) life; net cable comes both ways.
just a question
it is not better use cables with more quantity % of copper as possible for audio signals ?
and the same for power ,
or the less "noble" various  alloys can live up to the task?

 
SIXTYNINER said:
just a question
it is not better use cables with more quantity % of copper as possible for audio signals ?
That's just another audiophile misconception.
For signal wires.
First: the difference between normal copper wire and many nines wire is trivial.
Second: there is almost no current in signal wire, so the wires can be small and their conductivity doesn't matter.

and the same for power ,
or the less "noble" various  alloys can live up to the task?
Much of the AC power to our homes comes thru aluminum wires.  All that matters is the end-to-end resistance.
 
Speedskater said:
...
Much of the AC power to our homes comes thru aluminum wires.  All that matters is the end-to-end resistance.
Just to clarify, as a rule of thumb, you need twice as much surface area of Al than Cu for the same current, but weights and costs half as much, plus as is lighter structure for air lines is cheaper and lighter too.

Note that as twice the surface is needed skin effect becomes apparent sooner, so for HF is kind of a problem and frequency is higher sooner, probably not a problem for audio unless we are talking of very high power piezoelectric tweeters  ;)

JS
 
In the same size: Silver is hardly any better than Copper. (Gold is worse.)

99.99% copper is a few percent better than commercial copper, but 5X(?) more expensive. Buying plain Copper the next gauge bigger is a far better deal.

Aluminum is around half as conductive as Copper in the same size. But it is so much lighter that even at similar $/pound Aluminum is a better deal. Just buy bigger. (#2 instead of #4.) The advantage is compelling for long runs with few connectors, and especially self-supporting overhead wiring. Aluminum is hard to connect *well* so most inside wiring and nearly all electronics is done in Copper. (Exception: tweeters (and JBL E-130) sometimes use Al coils, and you pay for the extra trouble to make those connections.)

Skin effect is complicated, often mis-computed. I can just barely figure skin-effect on my 500 foot 2.4 Ohm power line-- it is the least of my losses after simple Resistance and the Inductance of twisted cable. Yes, if I got my power at 6KHz instead of 60Hz the skin would be thinner; but then the Inductance would bite really bad so skin is still not a big deal.
 
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