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iomegaman

iomegaman

Well-known member
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Dec 22, 2008
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Tucson, Az
Most (if not all) the newer TV's have usb ports...almost all of them have numerous HDMI ports...of course in todays moving technology this will change in the next three years...BUT...

If someone could figure out how to make a USB device or some sort of chipset add-on device that would AUTOMATICALLY drop the volume level on the TV as soon as it went to a commercial, it would fly off the shelf like hot cakes...

I don't watch a ton of TV, Wimbledon is one of my "go-to" events to watch...and it has less commercials that the majority of sporting events but even at that it feels like every 2 minutes the volume on the TV jumps by many dB due to commercials being a different level than the show I am watching...

I've tried to sit down with a stop watch and see if there's some schedule of when the commercials play (I'm sure there is but it probably varies a bit from network to network)...the amount of adverts I logged was well about 30% of the showtime...a one hour show now includes about 38 minutes of commercials...depending on the time of airing...just to see if I could schedule some kind of timer connected to a compressor that say, would drop the volume at 2:18-2:21 and various windows throughout the hour when schedules seem to be heaviest...

But the volume of commercials is offensive and intrusive (seems there should be some FCC standard here)...even a device that allowed advertisers to "license its use" (where they agreed to dB blocking in return for some stipend % of sales) would be better than the current system...

TV is almost unwatchable to me because of the ridiculous volume of commercials and I hate reaching for the remote every 4 minutes...
 
You forgot the hard part...how do you determine it's a commercial and not just odd program?

There is probably data in the video raster overscan that IDs commercials but since those are a revenue stream (for a sagging business) they will have corporate defenders to keep it from being too easy...

Even free videos now have commercials.    :mad: :mad: :mad:

But like I said, I have been thinking about this for years...  8)

Regarding commercial loudness... I am not sure they are really that much louder than the program, there may even be laws controlling that loudness change, BUT... commercial makers have figured out how to make them "seem" louder... certainly more irritating.  ::)  Watching tennis may exaggerate the difference if the regular program during tennis is much "less loud" than typical shows. 

My idea, another bit of mental masturbation I never pursued to end game, there are digital algorithms that  can recognize and identify popular songs from only sampling a few bars. It seems the same technology could learn to recognize commercials, every time they repeat... So the first time we hear a new commercial it plays at full volume. The next time the same commercial is recognized the sound dips a couple dB.  After several passes, the high repetition commercials will duck themselves out of existence.. 

Then you need to deal with all the dead air...

Using a DVR with smart FF it could learn to FF through high repetition commercials after several repetitions.

I can't imagine watching TV without a FF button... actually I can imagine it from when my direct TV receiver/DVR  crapped out  a few months ago and I lost FF capability for a few days.  ::)  Life is too short to watch commercials.

Not to be a wet blanket, but advertisers are aware of commercial skippers (hoppers?) so they have ramped up product placement, where consumer products are visibly displayed in the middle of a show, and banner ads running at the same time as program so you can't avoid them.

Not sure where this will end up, but there is some good (interesting ) science fiction about this (like minority report where the store display windows recognized everybody from their eyeballs.)

JR
 
A device like that existed, as a prototype. It used the indicator that is transmitted with every commercial. Worked perfectly. Someone in The Netherlands created it, years ago.

It never reached the market as the manufacturer was threatened with law suits by the publicity sector.
 
JohnRoberts said:
You forgot the hard part...how do you determine it's a commercial and not just odd program?

There is probably data in the video raster overscan that IDs commercials but since those are a revenue stream (for a sagging business) they will have corporate defenders to keep it from being too easy...

Even free videos now have commercials.    :mad: :mad: :mad:

But like I said, I have been thinking about this for years...  8)

Regarding commercial loudness... I am not sure they are really that much louder than the program, there may even be laws controlling that loudness change, BUT... commercial makers have figured out how to make them "seem" louder... certainly more irritating.  ::)  Watching tennis may exaggerate the difference if the regular program during tennis is much "less loud" than typical shows. 

My idea, another bit of mental masturbation I never pursued to end game, there are digital algorithms that  can recognize and identify popular songs from only sampling a few bars. It seems the same technology could learn to recognize commercials, every time they repeat... So the first time we hear a new commercial it plays at full volume. The next time the same commercial is recognized the sound dips a couple dB.  After several passes, the high repetition commercials will duck themselves out of existence.. 

Then you need to deal with all the dead air...

Using a DVR with smart FF it could learn to FF through high repetition commercials after several repetitions.

I can't imagine watching TV without a FF button... actually I can imagine it from when my direct TV receiver/DVR  crapped out  a few months ago and I lost FF capability for a few days.  ::)  Life is too short to watch commercials.

Not to be a wet blanket, but advertisers are aware of commercial skippers (hoppers?) so they have ramped up product placement, where consumer products are visibly displayed in the middle of a show, and banner ads running at the same time as program so you can't avoid them.

Not sure where this will end up, but there is some good (interesting ) science fiction about this (like minority report where the store display windows recognized everybody from their eyeballs.)

JR
Click to expand...

Yea I don't watch enough enough tv to DVR anything I can watch "On demand" stuff but never remember...now that I think about it, perhaps a simple IR device that functions like a compressor and sends a "lower the level" message to the TV...I mean you can already buy universal remotes maybe a "compressor chip" inside of a universal remote would be the lazy mans way...

Thats crazy cyrano...but it does not surprise me...money and lawyers keep the wheels running...can't be messing with that now can we?
 
JohnRoberts said:
Not to be a wet blanket, but advertisers are aware of commercial skippers (hoppers?) so they have ramped up product placement, where consumer products are visibly displayed in the middle of a show, and banner ads running at the same time as program so you can't avoid them.
Click to expand...
I recall hearing about "product placement" and seeing it in early seasons of American Idol (perhaps the last time I watched commercial TV), so it's been around a while.

Actually, decades earlier was that Superman movie where Lois smoked Marlboros...
Not sure where this will end up, but there is some good (interesting ) science fiction about this (like minority report where the store display windows recognized everybody from their eyeballs.)

JR
Click to expand...
Yet another science fiction movie gets it wrong - people are recognized by locating everyone's cellphones and feeding the "appropritate" ads to the people whose cellphones are in front of the display windows. I've literally read about this being done to target ads on highway electronic billboards as targeted people drive by.
A device like that existed, as a prototype. It used the indicator that is transmitted with every commercial. Worked perfectly. Someone in The Netherlands created it, years ago.

It never reached the market as the manufacturer was threatened with law suits by the publicity sector.
Click to expand...
No doubt there are many companies in China that could make it, and it could be distributed and sold in convenience stores worldwide, right beside the fidget spinners.
 
A database like adblock's for recognizing and muting/replacing. Maybe replace audio with paid, lowlevel, nonannoying radio ads for a business case?  :D

Device would be hdmi in/out, probably cant rely on ir remote.

Jakob E.
 
Personally, I rely on my TV's automatic volume control; a decent software lim/comp. Check your TV set. It's common.

When streaming through HDMI I use a free browser DSP plug. I think I found it on SourceForge.

I'm  100% sure commercials here in Sweden are higher level. It's not just a matter of production.
 
I do believe, at least in the US, there is a "max loudness" setting for commercials. I've read that the commercials are not actually louder than the max allowable - but they are compressed and play AT the max allowable, whereas regular program material may stray up to that max, but not stay there.

So our experience is true - the average loudness of a commercial is much higher than a show, but that max is not greater than a show may peak to.
 
I read somewhere that lowering the commercial volume too low makes one pay attention to the commercial more as we will involuntarily try to make out what a person is saying if we can just barely hear them (its even worse if we cant hear them at all).  I'd suggest just switching the channel but the bastards are smart (friggin understatement)  and time it so all stations play commercials at roughly the same time because they knew if they made it pointless to change the channel then we wouldn't. Bastards.
 
There is no loudness normalization in the USA for TV programs ? In Europe we have the EBU R128 norm for that.

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r128.pdf
 
benb said:
I recall hearing about "product placement" and seeing it in early seasons of American Idol (perhaps the last time I watched commercial TV), so it's been around a while.
Click to expand...
Subtle product placement has been around forever, like the brand of cop cars used on Dragnet, or Highway Patrol...
Actually, decades earlier was that Superman movie where Lois smoked Marlboros...Yet another science fiction movie gets it wrong - people are recognized by locating everyone's cellphones and feeding the "appropritate" ads to the people whose cellphones are in front of the display windows.
Click to expand...
recognizing eyeballs  was actually part of the plot line in Minority Report.  Yes sometimes science fiction gets it wrong... I am reading some old Assimov from the 1950s and he has them smoking cigarettes and cigars on some asteroid base 100 years in the future...

I also recall one sci-fi comedy with Jerry Lewis living on a moon base and smoking cigarettes like a chimney.


I've literally read about this being done to target ads on highway electronic billboards as targeted people drive by.
Click to expand...
I believe there was a pilot program done in Cleveland, OH (?) near P&G headquarters to change billboards based on what they could glean about cars passing by.  I don't own a cell phone so no luck reading me.  8)
No doubt there are many companies in China that could make it, and it could be distributed and sold in convenience stores worldwide, right beside the fidget spinners.
Click to expand...

To defeat my algorithm that learns commercials by repetition they would have to change them slightly, something they might do if needed.

Speaking of changing things slightly to avoid recognition... some of the sagging TV news programs try to game their ratings by misspelling the name of their show ... Nightly News, becomes Nitely News, and the ratings don't get captured for the lousy holiday time slot.  :eek:

JR
 
ruffrecords said:
Thank the Lord for the BBC.
Click to expand...

Up to a point you are right Ian, but even the Beeb are now doing 'voice over credits' adverts for their own programmes which is so bloody annoying.  This is where they don't allow the credits of a programme to run uninterrupted because they  do a  screen shrink and voice over telling us that "Over on BBC 1 we have .........." .  This just adds to the credibility of the Beeb slowly going down the pan in my view.  "Despite Brexit  :)

Cheers

Mike
 
Ironic that the initials of this spell CALM or CALMA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Advertisement_Loudness_Mitigation_Act

Spotify has a neat/annoying feature whereby if you mute the audio during adverts it pauses the advert. You can reduce the volume but not kill it

Spotify is a major offender in the LOUD ADVERTISEMENT wars

Nick Froome
 
pvision said:
Ironic that the initials of this spell CALM or CALMA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Advertisement_Loudness_Mitigation_Act

Spotify has a neat/annoying feature whereby if you mute the audio during adverts it pauses the advert. You can reduce the volume but not kill it

Spotify is a major offender in the LOUD ADVERTISEMENT wars

Nick Froome
Click to expand...

Spotify wants you to pay for the ad-free premium service. (I don't use it at all.)
 
Andy Peters said:
Spotify wants you to pay for the ad-free premium service. (I don't use it at all.)
Click to expand...

This is also what Youtube wants by pushing "Youtube Red"...and when you don't pony up "Your video will play after the ad" is what you get...

With all the data collection capabilities that seem to be the rage you'd think someone would actually harvest the real numbers of products sold vs ads run...and maybe a majority of ads are simply name recognition reinforcement, but I have never considered joining the hair club for men or taking one of the millions of drugs that have all those really bizarre side effects if taken with other drugs and not consulted with a doctor...
 

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