sonolink

Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« on: September 17, 2017, 08:10:15 PM »
Hello everybody,
 
Would it work to cover raw aluminium with primer and then paint red for instance. Let it dry and cover with some sort of tape.
Then use a 15W diode laser to cut letters or logos into the tape (turning it into a stencil), and then paint over the tape with white paint for instance to fill the letters. Then take the tape off and let dry.
Would that actually work? I'm thinking especially stomp boxes.

All input very much appreciated. Thanks
Sono
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou


Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 03:11:22 AM »
Hello everybody,
 
Would it work to cover raw aluminium with primer and then paint red for instance. Let it dry and cover with some sort of tape.
Then use a 15W diode laser to cut letters or logos into the tape (turning it into a stencil), and then paint over the tape with white paint for instance to fill the letters. Then take the tape off and let dry.
Would that actually work? I'm thinking especially stomp boxes.

All input very much appreciated. Thanks
Sono


I have tried many etch/acid primers and also epoxy primers on a bare aluminum. Sanding or no sanding. None of them can withstand the abuse like what you're about to do, pulling an adhesive tape without actually pulling some of the color/top coats.

I have not tried laser engraving on a powder coated piece. I fear that it will leave burnt or melted edge along the engraved lines  because I'm using a polyester based powder.

sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 07:04:46 AM »
So no tape solution to use laser to create a mask over paint then? :(
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou

dirtyhanfri

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 08:56:19 AM »
My advice is to forget about trying to paint aluminum with usual paint. Powder coating or anodizing seems to be the right way to do it.

While maybe you have more colour choice with powder coating, but anodizing at home/small shop is quite doable even considering the learning curve. I got consistent black panels in no more than a few trials.

Then you can mill and ink fill the engraved zones.

Never tried with laser on anodized aluminum, only with powder coated, and it's quite good. I outsourced it, so not sure about exact method, just know it required two passes.

Also, rigging a small powder coating jig seems not so hard,  you can find powder coating guns in eBay for just a few bucks, a second hand oven (if your pieces fit in it) and you're done. Could be even easier than anodise.

Food for thought.
Working on it...

[silent:arts]

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 12:02:33 PM »
Never tried with laser on anodized aluminum, only with powder coated, and it's quite good. I outsourced it, so not sure about exact method, just know it required two passes.
Laser on black anodized aluminum looks even better (white markings) and needs far less power than on powder coated panels (burning off the coating).

sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 12:37:21 PM »
Never tried with laser on anodized aluminum, only with powder coated, and it's quite good. I outsourced it, so not sure about exact method, just know it required two passes.
Thanks for that data dirtyhanfri :)
Did you laser the powder coat away in 2 passes and leave the bare metal?


And thanks to everybody for their input too, but the advice I need is about MASKING really. What material, etc....any suggestions/ideas please?  I can buy powder coated Hammond 1590 enclosures for stomp boxes or paint them myself with automotion paint. I have no problem with that. I've done it before with good results.
The problem I'm having is finding something to use as a mask/stencil to cut letters or logos ot whatever in it with laser and paint fill it. Wouldn't applying a final layer of clear lacquer hold the paint filling since?

Thanks again for your time and help :)
Sono
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 04:36:58 PM »
Thanks for that data dirtyhanfri :)
Did you laser the powder coat away in 2 passes and leave the bare metal?


And thanks to everybody for their input too, but the advice I need is about MASKING really. What material, etc....any suggestions/ideas please?  I can buy powder coated Hammond 1590 enclosures for stomp boxes or paint them myself with automotion paint. I have no problem with that. I've done it before with good results.
The problem I'm having is finding something to use as a mask/stencil to cut letters or logos ot whatever in it with laser and paint fill it.

laser engraving takes away the powder coat or anodized and back to bare aluminum.
sure you can peel off the masking tape, but what's the point of using it?
laser engraving don't need one because of its precision.

Quote
Wouldn't applying a final layer of clear lacquer hold the paint filling since?

nope.

instead of engraving then paint filling,

draw your artwork in Corel or Illustrator. send the file along with your powder coated or anodized piece to a printing shop offering a flatbed full color UV laser printing service.
surely there are such shops in Madrid if a 3rd world poor developing country like where I'm living has dozens of them in every city???





sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 05:44:38 PM »
laser engraving takes away the powder coat or anodized and back to bare aluminum.
sure you can peel off the masking tape, but what's the point of using it?
laser engraving don't need one because of its precision.

Sorry I can't help the feeling that there is a language barrier misunderstanding here. I want to use the laser to create letters or logos on stomp boxes. Usually I do this with decals. Since I can't carve directly into aluminium with a 40w CO2 laser or a 15W diode laser and I've had bad experience with DIY screen printing I was hoping to use the laser to cut a mask/screen/stencil whatever you want to call it, and use it to paint the letter or logos on the stomp box, since MANY times you would want these to be coloured instead of bare metal.

That's the reason why I would like to find a tape suitable for that. I know this is done by people using lasers, the problem is that I don't know WHAT tape they use...
See first 2 posts: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=48266.msg609026#msg609026

Also here: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=47404.msg599152#msg599152

Cheers
Sono
[/quote]
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 07:53:37 PM »
Sorry I can't help the feeling that there is a language barrier misunderstanding here.

are we not using English?

Quote
I want to use the laser to create letters or logos on stomp boxes. Usually I do this with decals. Since I can't carve directly into aluminium with a 40w CO2 laser or a 15W diode laser and I've had bad experience with DIY screen printing I was hoping to use the laser to cut a mask/screen/stencil whatever you want to call it, and use it to paint the letter or logos on the stomp box, since MANY times you would want these to be coloured instead of bare metal.

I never mentioned DIY screen printing.

I said you should design your artwork (logo and letter) in Corel or Illustrator.
Then go to a printing shop which offer a full color UV laser printing service, so they will print your artwork on your stomp box case.

Is that too hard to understand?



sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 09:28:54 PM »
are we not using English?
I definately am

I never mentioned DIY screen printing.
Indeed you didn't. I DID. And I also mentioned MASKING TAPE. And I gave two links about it to further illustrate my question. If you also need a croquis, well I'm sorry...

I said you should design your artwork (logo and letter) in Corel or Illustrator.
I already do so, thanks.

Then go to a printing shop which offer a full color UV laser printing service, so they will print your artwork on your stomp box case.
I don't WANT to do that. I want to use my laser and I need to know what masking tape or transfer tape is adequate for that.
Is THAT too hard to understand?
Thank you for your time and help!
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou


dirtyhanfri

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 05:57:42 AM »
Well, what I get from the light reading of the posts you linked is they use Tape in the panel, burn both tape and material up to bare metal and then, without taking out the tape, they paint in the burned (bare metal exposed) zones. Am I right?

If that's the case I think  there's no special tape, maybe I'm wrong, but I would try with painters tape (Cinta de carrocero, in spanish) And check if burn engraved borders are OK, if not, I would search another kind of tape, but if his function is just serve as mask,I think you will be ok with any tape which meets some basic requirements (basically getting sharp edges in the engraved zones comes to mind)

I would be concerned, if using paint (regular or 'automotive', I never got good results with them) for the panel,not the engraved zones, when lifting the tape you could take some paint with it and ruin the whole piece in the last minute. (Did I say I DON'T like paint?).

For stompboxes, I would definitely go on with anodizing, it's not a extra layer to the bare metal which can be taken off with physical abuse as paint or powder coating, it's the metal taking color into it's pore, and then you close the pore.
Working on it...

Jarno

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 07:18:28 AM »
You could use the lasercutter to create the masks to do the painting on the stompboxes, but a Roland Stika is easier for this, I suppose. You could give it a go, cut masks, stick everything on, peel away the exposed areas, do spray painting.

sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 09:06:57 AM »
Well, what I get from the light reading of the posts you linked is they use Tape in the panel, burn both tape and material up to bare metal and then, without taking out the tape, they paint in the burned (bare metal exposed) zones. Am I right?
You ARE right! ;)
The question is: are all tapes ok for laser? I've read somewhere there is a problem with using PVC based stuff but I don't know if that's true. That's why I was hoping to get someone with experience in this to chime in :)

I would be concerned, if using paint (regular or 'automotive', I never got good results with them) for the panel,not the engraved zones, when lifting the tape you could take some paint with it and ruin the whole piece in the last minute. (Did I say I DON'T like paint?).
I will mostly use powder coated enclosures anyway, but the key to good results with paint is proper curing. I used to have problems before leaving the piece to dry for 2-3 days. If it's properly primered, painted and cured, automotive paint will stand almost anything really.

For stompboxes, I would definitely go on with anodizing, it's not a extra layer to the bare metal which can be taken off with physical abuse as paint or powder coating, it's the metal taking color into it's pore, and then you close the pore.
I know, I've been watching somo videos about it and I definately want to explore that :)
Thanks a lot for all your input, dirtyhanfri ;)

You could use the lasercutter to create the masks to do the painting on the stompboxes, but a Roland Stika is easier for this, I suppose. You could give it a go, cut masks, stick everything on, peel away the exposed areas, do spray painting.

Indeed Jarno BUT the reason I'd like to be able to do it with the laser cutter is because if it works I can add plenty of different colors by layers without having to worry about alignment. With the STIKA I would have to cut each color mask and get them aligned on the piece, which I find would be quite tricky.
Thanks for your input anyway :)
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou

[silent:arts]

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 11:55:44 AM »
Laser works with heat. Tape doesn't like heat. Just saying.

sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 02:03:28 PM »
Laser works with heat. Tape doesn't like heat. Just saying.

Wouldn't that depend on the tape formulation, Volker?
Check 5:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hFNj86L7sk&t=450s&list=LL2dMBPjWg9oMeJb8eOWXxpA&index=1

Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou

[silent:arts]

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2017, 02:21:17 AM »
If you want letters that big, it might work.
I still can't see how it working with 5mm letters.

Since you want to remove powder coating the same time:
laser engraving powder coating needs high power with slow speed, I'm sure there is no useful tape withstanding this.

dirtyhanfri

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2017, 02:39:50 AM »
I'm sure there is no useful tape withstanding this.

Actually, ink fill on powder coated surfaces doesn't need a stencil, the ink won't fix to the coating. I've done it a few times.

A bit off topic: I have a small (3020) CNC router which I don't use anymore and I'm thinking in install a laser module on it to engrave mainly anodized aluminum. Does anybody have any experience with those 2500mW lasers? I've been reading different forums and it seems capable of engrave it, but I'd like to be more confident before I pull the trigger.

I know for engrave bare aluminum you need a CO2 laser, but I suspect you don't need so much power to remove the oxide layer and expose bare metal.
Working on it...

Jarno

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2017, 05:18:37 AM »
If you want letters that big, it might work.
I still can't see how it working with 5mm letters.

Since you want to remove powder coating the same time:
laser engraving powder coating needs high power with slow speed, I'm sure there is no useful tape withstanding this.

Maybe kapton tape? Probably expensive though (and I would still worry about the adhesive being affected).

sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2017, 05:34:27 AM »
If you want letters that big, it might work.
I still can't see how it working with 5mm letters.

Since you want to remove powder coating the same time:
laser engraving powder coating needs high power with slow speed, I'm sure there is no useful tape withstanding this.
Mmm you might have a point there actually Volker..... ;)
I'll keep reading. I'm pretty sure this should work somehow....maybe it's a question of using certain fonts too....

Actually, ink fill on powder coated surfaces doesn't need a stencil, the ink won't fix to the coating. I've done it a few times.
You mean that paint filling on powder coated enclosures could be done directly after lasering, like when paint filling engraved anodized aluminum for instance? (For that I use nail paint over the engraving and when it's dry I clean the excess with acetone)

I know for engrave bare aluminum you need a CO2 laser, but I suspect you don't need so much power to remove the oxide layer and expose bare metal.
On the last link I gave the guy uses a 2500mW diode laser to engrave anodized aluminium. The only thing I don't know is if he has changed the firmware or soft of the machine for that since he mentions that at some point in the video. I think that power wise it should work. You can also consider a 5.5W or 7W diode. That should be power enough from what I've seen around :)
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou

sonolink

Re: Advice Needed for Laser and Paint Filling
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2017, 05:36:15 AM »
Maybe kapton tape? Probably expensive though (and I would still worry about the adhesive being affected).

I think we've reached a moment in which the answers will only come from proper testing.....meaning I can't wait anymore and I'm going to buy the damn laser!! :)
I am looking for a 600x400 50W chinese one.

I'll keep you people posted :)
Cheers
Sono
Why sleep when you can mix?
M.P.Stavrou