r2d2

How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« on: January 31, 2019, 03:35:02 PM »

Some time ago i met a guy  at an electronics fair ..
and talking about various things related to the electronics world ,
( …..tasting an excellent beer …   :D   )

he told me also  about an experience he had
with a worldwide  well known pro audio hardware and software company manufacturer ,
of which he has been a long time user too ,

browsing through the various website sections
he found a section dedicated to the improvement of the products ,
where customers could post messages , feedbacks , suggestions , etc..

having various ideas about the possible improvement and addition of some options ,

he had a contact with research and development department ,
for know terms and conditions about this type of "collaboration" ,

and the type of rewards (royalties , products , updates , etc..)
in case the suggestion was developed and included in their products ,

the answer in summary was :  Nothing !   :o

he asked them :  Why nothing ?
and the answer in summary was :
At the moment no compensation is provided for this type of  " relationship " .    :o   :'(

W O W    :o
what a way to make money ….

….. How Much Poverty Even In The Rich…..
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)


JohnRoberts

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 04:04:57 PM »
Some time ago i met a guy  at an electronics fair ..
and talking about various things related to the electronics world ,
( …..tasting an excellent beer …   :D   )

he told me also  about an experience he had
with a worldwide  well known pro audio hardware and software company manufacturer ,
of which he has been a long time user too ,

browsing through the various website sections
he found a section dedicated to the improvement of the products ,
where customers could post messages , feedbacks , suggestions , etc..

having various ideas about the possible improvement and addition of some options ,

he had a contact with research and development department ,
for know terms and conditions about this type of "collaboration" ,

and the type of rewards (royalties , products , updates , etc..)
in case the suggestion was developed and included in their products ,

the answer in summary was :  Nothing !   :o

he asked them :  Why nothing ?
and the answer in summary was :
At the moment no compensation is provided for this type of  " relationship " .    :o   :'(

W O W    :o
what a way to make money ….

….. How Much Poverty Even In The Rich…..
I'm sure that sounds profound to you...

I have worked in new product development for a decent sized company and saw them lose money on the majority of outside projects. Only a small handful were profitable, perhaps that is why they employ engineers to develop their own products.

If the ideas are so good, develop them yourself and keep all the money.  :o  I have been developing new products for decades and it has never been easier/cheaper for individual small companies to do it themselves. Success and profit is still difficult.  :-[
===

Another observation from the Pinker Book I am currently reading is that people we classify as living in or near poverty level today have a higher standard of living than top royalty did only a century or two ago.

Central heat, indoor plumbing, radio and TV, internet search engines, fresh fruit year round, life saving drugs, etc.

JR 

 
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

r2d2

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 04:41:50 PM »
I'm sure that sounds profound to you...
sorry ,
but you are wrong .

I have worked in new product development for a decent sized company and saw them lose money on the majority of outside projects. Only a small handful were profitable, perhaps that is why they employ engineers to develop their own products.
If the ideas are so good, develop them yourself and keep all the money.

Why "they" do not limit the improvement development to the beta testers ,
and sponsored expert users ,  ( because they have to be paid ? ..)
without asking for it publicly ?

why use a "net trawling" method ? (no payment required ? … )

wide lack of good ideas/inputs ?

it is perhaps not true that without good ideas ,
money and development facilities are useless?

one at random about :  Steve Jobs ,
only one of some examples ( various personal defects apart …)

Another observation from the Pinker Book I am currently reading is that people we classify as living in or near poverty level today have a higher standard of living than top royalty did only a century or two ago.

Central heat, indoor plumbing, radio and TV, internet search engines, fresh fruit year round, life saving drugs, etc.

JR

 this is the "core" life standard for avoid wars
cheers
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)

pucho812

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 04:46:02 PM »
I have a different experience to share. Having worked for pro audio manufactures, we often get people at trade shows asking if we will every make (insert audio box here doing whatever processes real or imagined) because it would really make a lot of money and have great sales.   It usually does not and it often comes up because they have run across something specific to how they work or what they work on that needs a solution.  It  is usually only for them, but they say it is for everyone right...

I had a thing where I was talking with Neutirk at a trade show and was wondering why they make a combo jack, but not a combo plug.  The combo jack  can receive a male xls  or TRS as the jack itself has female xls and female trs. Well I had a specific need to have a plug that would mate to it that so I could use the trs and xls at the same time.  This was dude to a manufacture who made a rack mount mixer which used the combo jack and had line input on the TRS and mic input on the xlr. I wanted both at the same time so I would just have it wired into points on a patch bay.
Again for everyone right?  ;D
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

JohnRoberts

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 05:19:15 PM »
I have a different experience to share. Having worked for pro audio manufactures, we often get people at trade shows asking if we will every make (insert audio box here doing whatever processes real or imagined) because it would really make a lot of money and have great sales.   It usually does not and it often comes up because they have run across something specific to how they work or what they work on that needs a solution.  It  is usually only for them, but they say it is for everyone right...
I spent decades at trade shows listening to punters tell me how many more units I would sell to everybody if we just add "just  this one more feature."  ::)  But every punter wanted a different "just one more feature".  :o

In the real world new product development is harder than it looks .
Quote
I had a thing where I was talking with Neutirk at a trade show and was wondering why they make a combo jack, but not a combo plug.  The combo jack  can receive a male xls  or TRS as the jack itself has female xls and female trs. Well I had a specific need to have a plug that would mate to it that so I could use the trs and xls at the same time.  This was dude to a manufacture who made a rack mount mixer which used the combo jack and had line input on the TRS and mic input on the xlr. I wanted both at the same time so I would just have it wired into points on a patch bay.
Again for everyone right?  ;D
We used to have face to face meetings with the top guy from Neutrik in our booth at trade shows in Germany to discuss new stuff they were working on.

About your specific idea... pass...  The beauty of the combo XLR-1/4" jack is that it works with a wider universe of both XLR users combined with 1/4" users.

Alternately your idea about a combo XLR-1/4" plug, only works for a subset of combo jack owners. So a small fraction of that modest total universe of combo jack users.

It cost real money to tool up special components. They might do it if you we were willing to buy a million pieces. I somehow doubt the market is that large.  :-[

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

boji

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 05:44:46 PM »
Quote
Another observation from the Pinker Book I am currently reading is that people we classify as living in or near poverty level today have a higher standard of living than top royalty did only a century or two ago.
+1 The greater the overall stability and relative wealth of a democratic country the higher the tendency to see news concerned with social justice, and worrying over the affairs of those who commit sacrilege in sight of the PC church.  We should all be overjoyed in our present condition- where threats of air-raid sirens and the need to memorize the locations of local fallout shelters has vanished from our mental landscape.

r2d2

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2019, 05:28:03 AM »

About your specific idea... pass...  The beauty of the combo XLR-1/4" jack is that it works with a wider universe of both XLR users combined with 1/4" users.

Alternately your idea about a combo XLR-1/4" plug, only works for a subset of combo jack owners. So a small fraction of that modest total universe of combo jack users.

It cost real money to tool up special components. They might do it if you we were willing to buy a million pieces. I somehow doubt the market is that large.  :-[

JR

The double "way" idea is very good
also for rack summ boxes where space is limited

and my 2 cents about is that the second "way" can be used as outboard insert
or second input with a switch for select 1 of the 2 options ,

…ok..ok ..  ::)   the DB25 connectors can be a good alternative as they require less space and money too ,
 but so not flexible (i.m.h.o.) ,
overall on live sessions , if not connected to a patch bay ( also trs , or combo…) ,

probably in the 80 and 90 age, before D.A.W.  and plug ins  ,
when cables and connectors sales were at excellent levels ( labor for cabling included )

"They"  would not have doubted 1 nanosecond to start the design and production about ,

anyway i hope "they" do not realize it without give you a reward   :(

otherwise always the same old "song"  :'(  :
How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)

Kingston

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 06:41:09 AM »
At the moment no compensation is provided for this type of  " relationship " .    :o   :'(

I agree with said company. Hiring such a person as a consultant is the thing to do. But such relationships are professional with certain legal obligations, guarantees of knowledge and probably success both sides.

"Don't call us, we'll call you"

On the other hand getting involved with a random guy off the street with dreams ends up a nuisance at best - and if company is completely naive there can be lawsuits.

r2d2

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 08:00:45 AM »
I agree with said company. Hiring such a person as a consultant is the thing to do. But such relationships are professional with certain legal obligations, guarantees of knowledge and probably success both sides.

"Don't call us, we'll call you"

On the other hand getting involved with a random guy off the street with dreams ends up a nuisance at best - and if company is completely naive there can be lawsuits.

Sorry guys :
please : do not make confusion with development engineers department jobs ,

the thread is not about :  get a job as engineer ,
but about the idea ,
the start point of anything
and the protection of the same .

Grab feedbacks, suggestions…. (idea)  in that way
i. m. little h. o. is fraudulent ,  shady ….
it's really " poor" … ( but not poor in money … , mental dryness ? … "greed " apart... )

as well as having  negative reflects on the image of the company..

" They " make money with what "grabbed" and not paid ,

and this happen because probably so many do not know that is possible
communicate - expose the idea
with the declaration of confidentiality including the legal protection of the idea ,

it would not be much better (as well as more serious and honest)
hold a  a type of competition with a premium for who want take part in it ?



« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 08:21:12 AM by r2d2 »
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)

living sounds

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 09:03:31 AM »
Another observation from the Pinker Book I am currently reading is that people we classify as living in or near poverty level today have a higher standard of living than top royalty did only a century or two ago.

Central heat, indoor plumbing, radio and TV, internet search engines, fresh fruit year round, life saving drugs, etc.

JR

Very misleading though. The poor in the US for example are often worn out between several badly payed jobs, lack of access to affordable health care, only cheap and unhealthy food (poor people cannot afford to live on fresh vegetables), environmental hazards like lead in the drinking water ( or having actual sh*t rained down on them, see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayGJ1YSfDXs), a legal and economic system rigged against them. They know they cannot escape poverty.

Relative poverty is another concern, humans are social creatures, so standards are set not by history but by the rest of the society. people are living in.

What all of this means is, that obviously, you cannot seriously suggest or imply that, for example, the king of France living in Versaille (and various other grand venues) had it worse than  the lower classes today.

In fact, the only reason people put up with it is the escapist entertainment provided today, which has replaced religion.


JohnRoberts

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2019, 10:31:35 AM »
Very misleading though. The poor in the US for example are often worn out between several badly payed jobs, lack of access to affordable health care, only cheap and unhealthy food (poor people cannot afford to live on fresh vegetables), environmental hazards like lead in the drinking water ( or having actual sh*t rained down on them, see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayGJ1YSfDXs), a legal and economic system rigged against them. They know they cannot escape poverty.

Relative poverty is another concern, humans are social creatures, so standards are set not by history but by the rest of the society. people are living in.
There will always be an uneven distribution of wealth in a free society because different people vary in their ability to gain wealth for sundry reasons, despite similar opportunity. Howard Shultz rose to becoming a billionaire from a modest childhood. Now he is being vilified by the political elite because he raises fair questions and isn't a party line politician (team player). 

Using government force to redistribute wealth can discourage new wealth creation defeating the benefit. We already have progressive tax rates. We could make everyone equally poor, but that would not make me happy.
Quote
What all of this means is, that obviously, you cannot seriously suggest or imply that, for example, the king of France living in Versaille (and various other grand venues) had it worse than  the lower classes today.
You didn't stipulate which King of France, they died from different factors. Several suffered from sundry health maladies well managed by modern medicine, except for the one who died from his jousting injuries. Ear infections, tuberculosis , etc are relatively easily manageable with modern medicine. I will speculate those old kings would be happier living longer free of treatable diseases. Suffering and dying wealthy is still suffering and dying.  ::)

Ironically perhaps there is an outbreak of measles in the US northwest because parents believed the BS spread about harmful effects of childhood inoculations (an unintended downside of free speech), leaving enough of the population unprotected against a very contagious "old" disease we already conquered once. We'll see if they learn from this unfortunate life lesson. There are pretty obvious public health concerns about allowing parents to avoid disease prevention.

For only a tiny fraction of the total population unprotected is not really at risk of the contagion spreading geometrically, but apparently enough of the Northwest population is unprotected to support measles becoming epidemic ( sadly the children must pay for the parents ignorance.)
Quote
In fact, the only reason people put up with it is the escapist entertainment provided today, which has replaced religion.
I am not smart enough to pontificate about what the mass population believes, but apparently they don't embrace the value of empirical science,  economic theory, or history.  ::)

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

living sounds

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2019, 11:45:22 AM »
Pointing to a single individual like Howard Schultz is a non sequitor. We are talking about structural poverty in today's world.

https://alisonwrightphoto.photoshelter.com/gallery/Children-Poverty-in-America/G0000PA6dRQy.Q0g/

Anti-waxxer's, yes, one more case of anti-expertism. And since 2017 even the president of the US is one of them...

Robert Cialdini thinks that today's oversaturation with media prevents people from thinking things through. We take congnitive shortcuts instead. Sounds very plausible to me.

Matador

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 01:10:21 PM »
There will always be an uneven distribution of wealth in a free society because different people vary in their ability to gain wealth for sundry reasons, despite similar opportunity. Howard Shultz rose to becoming a billionaire from a modest childhood. Now he is being vilified by the political elite because he raises fair questions and isn't a party line politician (team player). 
Howard Shultz is being vilified because his entire platform reduces down to 'I oppose anything that might personally cost me more of my own money.'  He's has spent his entire time in the spotlight talking about how everyone else is wrong but hasn't offered any evidence-backed policies of his own.

Everyone agrees that uneven distribution will always happen in a free society, but that isn't what people are debating.  We are debating where the line should be placed.  And we should decide quickly, because history has shown us when equality gets too far out of whack, then solutions start to involve guillotines not debates.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 04:23:10 PM by Matador »

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2019, 01:31:26 PM »
+1 The greater the overall stability and relative wealth of a democratic country the higher the tendency to see news concerned with social justice, and worrying over the affairs of those who commit sacrilege in sight of the PC church.  We should all be overjoyed in our present condition- where threats of air-raid sirens and the need to memorize the locations of local fallout shelters has vanished from our mental landscape.

"Let's celebrate we're the ones doing all the bombing!"

living sounds

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2019, 08:25:00 PM »
Oh, one more thing:

All that progress made in the fields of medical science, the internet, radio and TV - all that is thanks to government funded or even government run research. Taxpayers paid for that.

And scientists rarely got rich. Because they tend to be not that small-minded type of person who never get enough of what they do not need. But they do need funding for research. And are not getting nearly enough since the loosing neoliberal ideas took hold. To the detriment of all of us.


JohnRoberts

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2019, 12:28:38 PM »
Oh, one more thing:

All that progress made in the fields of medical science, the internet, radio and TV - all that is thanks to government funded or even government run research. Taxpayers paid for that.
That is an all to common talking point from "big government" proponents.

Not to completely dismiss the benefits from government funded research and development (like NASA space program), it is impossible (or should be difficult) to deny the profit motive driving drug industry R&D. This profit is the "killing the golden goose" aspect of government mandated low prices for drugs.  There is some improvement in the area of drug prices from speeding up approvals of new generic drugs.  Beware simple answers that can conceal unintended consequences like damping new drug research. I recall a drop in drug industry R&D spending just from the fear of ACA, before it passed. This R&D spending seems to be healthy again while there are some anecdotal examples of onerous drug price increases that could fuel political opposition.     
Quote
And scientists rarely got rich. Because they tend to be not that small-minded type of person who never get enough of what they do not need.
Does this involve engineers (I think yes)? How about Elon Musk he seems to be doing OK, as well as the many millionaires and billionaires(?) who made their fortunes in silicon valley thanks to capitalism, hard work and good fortune.
Quote
But they do need funding for research. And are not getting nearly enough since the loosing neoliberal ideas took hold. To the detriment of all of us.
Always the optimist, don't give up all hope yet...   8) The US is drifting slightly left  :-[ but the EU is still serving as a warning about where we could end up.  ::)

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...

L´Andratté

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2019, 06:16:37 PM »
Lol
I couldn´t have said it better than, well,---Tucker Carlson???
https://video.foxnews.com/v/5985464569001/#sp=show-clips
Strictly amateur since 1973...

living sounds

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 12:25:13 PM »

living sounds

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2019, 12:33:44 PM »
That is an all to common talking point from "big government" proponents.

Not to completely dismiss the benefits from government funded research and development (like NASA space program), it is impossible (or should be difficult) to deny the profit motive driving drug industry R&D. This profit is the "killing the golden goose" aspect of government mandated low prices for drugs.  There is some improvement in the area of drug prices from speeding up approvals of new generic drugs.  Beware simple answers that can conceal unintended consequences like damping new drug research. I recall a drop in drug industry R&D spending just from the fear of ACA, before it passed. This R&D spending seems to be healthy again while there are some anecdotal examples of onerous drug price increases that could fuel political opposition.     Does this involve engineers (I think yes)? How about Elon Musk he seems to be doing OK, as well as the many millionaires and billionaires(?) who made their fortunes in silicon valley thanks to capitalism, hard work and good fortune. Always the optimist, don't give up all hope yet...   8) The US is drifting slightly left  :-[ but the EU is still serving as a warning about where we could end up.  ::)

JR

But you are making my point here. It would be far more fruitfull to massively fund basic reasearch at universities instead of letting drug companies create pseudoinnovations and fake studies to sell drugs instead of creating innovation.

The pharmaceutical industry is a good example of the grifter economy we live in these days.

Starbucks is a good example of a company who's only innovations lay in marketing. Engineers don't run these companies and enginnering is not what drives their advantages. On top of it all Starbucks used unfair tactics to get rid of competitors to sell their overpriced products.

I could go on, but I am aware I am not going to convince you here...

JohnRoberts

Re: How Much Poverty Even In The Rich
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2019, 01:47:13 PM »
But you are making my point here. It would be far more fruitfull to massively fund basic reasearch at universities instead of letting drug companies create pseudoinnovations and fake studies to sell drugs instead of creating innovation.
That is the basic argument for government managing everything... I do not accept that.

All the countries with socialized medicine could already do that but they seem happy to piggy back on our R&D spending while negotiating lower drug prices for their markets that do not support that much R&D. The drug industry has been willing to pay for the R&D from US market profits (for now).  If the US market imposes more price discipline the free ride could go away with higher world prices (actually lower prices here than we pay now.)
Quote
The pharmaceutical industry is a good example of the grifter economy we live in these days.
Big Pharma has been under the microscope for years and their pricing abuses are not missed by anyone paying attention. This could end badly for them if they ignore the PR and invite public ire. Some drug companies have already paid a price. At least one chairman was replaced because of outlandish price increases, while it still goes on, just less visibly.   
Quote
Starbucks is a good example of a company who's only innovations lay in marketing. Engineers don't run these companies and enginnering is not what drives their advantages. On top of it all Starbucks used unfair tactics to get rid of competitors to sell their overpriced products.
Apparently very successfully.... ::) 

 How about showing me something Apple actually invented... They are masterful at taking other people's ideas and making them better.
Quote
I could go on, but I am aware I am not going to convince you here...
Not so far...but thanks for pausing. This is not fun for me either.

JR
John Roberts
http://circularscience.com
Tune it, or don't play it...


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
49 Replies
10085 Views
Last post July 12, 2006, 09:12:50 PM
by Svart
4 Replies
1655 Views
Last post February 15, 2009, 12:14:44 PM
by gary o
0 Replies
1090 Views
Last post January 12, 2010, 02:00:14 PM
by gary o
10 Replies
2272 Views
Last post June 17, 2011, 04:44:07 AM
by tv