Whoops

DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« on: February 06, 2019, 05:30:16 PM »
Hello,
I would like to use the waves plugins in live sound mixing with a server.
The Waves servers seem quite expensive for what is a box filled with standard PC components.

I would like to build a compatible server myself.
It seems the image of the soundgrid server software is included in the Servers  update software package.

So it doesn't seem to hard to build a server and flash the image to an ssd drive.

There's Waves distributers building and selling their own servers, there's also Big PA rental companies that use their own built servers.

Did anyone around here tried to do this ? or would like to build a compatible server?

These are the specs for the most expensive unit for sale from waves:

EXTREME
CPU: Intel® Skylake i7
RAM: 8 GB
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B150N-GSM
LAN Card: Intel on-Board

this video shows the insides a server, in this case Server One:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATjTtcNHb7w







Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2019, 12:10:54 PM »
flagging this ;)

Eliani

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2019, 05:21:11 AM »
The reason that some are building their own Soundgrid servers is because Soundgrid is an open source protocol, there's not really a lot to it...

It's a small  dedicated linux distribution running a very basic headless network protocol that runs numbers. you can run it on pretty much any computer that has an intel processor and intel gigabit network port... (If I remember correctly there's some realtek port that work too). I you search google for the source code you can compile it yourself, or send the guys over at waves a $10 note and you'll receive your own executable file to build your server...

https://www.waves.com/legal/soundgrid-server-open-source-code

There's more information about compiling, and someone that actually compiled it and he had a running version, but the thread at reddit got archived: https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/atvmr0/custom_soundgrid_server_a_work_in_progress/
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 05:39:24 AM by Eliani »
"Iron Projects" at Eli-Audio.com

dp

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2019, 07:00:25 PM »
Whoa... this is interesting.

I wonder what it would take to make it work with non-Waves plugins?

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2019, 06:17:48 PM »
There is a way with Reaper to use an external pc for  processing any VST, either over firewire or gigabit lan ,Reamote , Ive tried it and it seems to  work ,there is some delay though. Either way separating the computer thats doing the recording from the one that handles the  processing seems like a good plan for more reliable operation . Generally speaking recording/playback   is far less processor hungry and its something even an older dedicated pc could  handle with its hands tied behind its back.

 A dedicated OS  to numbercrunch  your favourite VST's in (almost)real time would be very nice ,  maybe a virtual touch screen rack would be a more appropriate control methodology than mouse  :D

I couldnt see , does the waves server only handle waves plugins ?

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2019, 06:38:09 PM »
Just looked back at that waves server ,   >:( ,there having a larf, is that the high tech sound proofing ,globbs of white acrylic goo everywhere  ;D
buy a junked  Mac Pro  and refit appropriately .

Whoops

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2019, 02:40:31 PM »
does the waves server only handle waves plugins ?

Hi,
yes and it does it very well.

It's quite popular in live sound, I had a busy summer on the road, I will get back to this project in the winter time now.

If anyone has relevant info on how to build this, please join

thank you

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2019, 05:51:18 PM »
There is also an experimental version of Reaper running on linux now that can handle VST plugins

https://appuals.com/how-to-use-windows-vsts-in-latest-reaper-5-93-linux-native-builds/
 
maybe its possible to use this via Reamote with a windows based daw ,still not as stripped down as a dedicated server like the waves Soundgrid , and hit or miss if a particular plugin will work or not .
I cant seem to  find much on Soundgrid server image ,or what ever flavour of linux its based on.

cyrano

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2019, 07:04:52 AM »
It's based on SGLinux, with BusyBox. Nothing special, not even really customised. They've just stripped out some unneeded utilities and a lot of drivers. Most notably, GPU and ethernet drivers. Probably to make sure it doesn't run on other hardware. It only recognises a limited number of Intel ethernet chipsets, fi.

It does, however, seem to detect if it's virtualised. A feeble attempt to make reverse engineering a bit harder?

SGLinux is a commercial Linux distro from Singapore. I suspect it might be an SELinux derivative. There's no website for it, atm. It used to be:

https://sglinux.com/

It is, or was developed by RMR Solutions:

http://www.rmr.com.sg/

It's built on the servers of Roll-your-own-Linux. Anybody can do that.

When I say it's nothing special, I mean the hardware isn't even up to the usual server specs. No redundancy, fi.

Unless you need it to run Waves plugins, I'd look elsewhere. None of the tech is exclusive.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2019, 10:31:11 AM »
Thanks for digging out the extra backround info Cyrano ,
the fact that its limited to waves stuff really narrows the appeal for me ,

I did check into Reaper Reamote a bit more , not sure if a  windows and linux Os would be able to work properly together via lan cable . Windows really doesnt have a chance in hell of doing anything in near real time ,there are however many linux distributions that can .

They have a version of Reaper  for Arm/Rasberry pi now ,promises very good processing for small money , theres even a suggestion you could set up a  Reaper  processor farm using flashed TV boxes .

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=204976&page=4


cyrano

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2019, 11:39:24 AM »
I don't know if the Waves server is limited to certain plugins. Never tried it.

Reamote is more of an adventure. I'm sure the Mac/Linux/Windows versions can work together as all it does is stream audio between machines. The real question is which plugins are available and can be made to work.

Some people have had some success running VST's with Wine on Linux. No idea what percentage of plugins that is, tho. My plugin needs are covered with Reaper's included plugins. Not that I don't use any other, but I certainly don't spend a lot of money on plugins.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

dp

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2019, 03:35:48 PM »
There are a few 3rd-party plugins supported in SG but not many...

https://www.waves.com/support/soundgrid-compatible-third-party-plugins

If I could do a roll-your-own SG server, I think it would still be worth it for me. I really like the Waves reverbs (H-Reverb, Abbey Road Plates and Chambers) and those can be quite the CPU hog. The ability to offload just those plugins might be worth it for me.

cyrano

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2019, 03:57:48 PM »
Seems doable and not too expensive, even for my taste  8)
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2019, 04:51:58 PM »
From what I read a few people got their hands on a genuine SG server and tried to clone it with new hardware , still didnt work right though . There must be people in the trade who know how to do it properly ,but if you knew where there was a goose who layed golden eggs would you tell everyone ?  :D

Of course if you figured out how to clone and fully load your own brand servers with top of the line plugins with near zero latency you'd be on the pigs back ,for a while anyway until Waves Israeli security personnel catch up with you , 8)


Whoops

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2019, 10:10:44 PM »
I did check into Reaper Reamote a bit more , not sure if a  windows and linux Os would be able to work properly together via lan cable . Windows really doesnt have a chance in hell of doing anything in near real time ,there are however many linux distributions that can .

Tubetec,
this thread is related to the subject "DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server",  if you have info related to this subject please join and share, but if you are interested in reaper or any other solution please start your own and new thread on that subject.
Reaper is not relevant for this thread that I started.

thanks

Whoops

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2019, 10:21:24 PM »
Seems doable and not too expensive, even for my taste  8)

Thank you so much Cyrano for your info.
Yes it's totally doable and I have seen quite a few DIY waves server units already on the road.

As I told before I have been really busy out on gigs this summer and I didnt have anytime to work on this project, I will work on it in the next months.
I know some people that have the Server Image, I can share it when I get it.

As for hardware you can use any i5 or i7 processor,
the ethernet/network card has to be a Gigabit intel card.

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2019, 06:11:44 AM »
Im sorry I didnt mean to be rude or undermine your post Whoops .

I am interested in Waves SG server , and as we've found out the hardware is the easy part , its basically all off the shelf stuff .
Suppose you can clone an existing unit wouldnt you still need to register/authorise  for it to work ?
I do also notice an SG expansion card for Behringer X32  , I must get a hands on tutorial on the X32 soon , as it seems to be the go-to mixer for a modern live /installation  set ups.
Looks like the basic building blocks of the software are open source , but thats not to say if you did manage to clone the system you wouldnt be infringing Waves IP .

cyrano

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2019, 06:50:39 AM »
Hardware specs of an original Waves Soundgrid server:

Processor: Intel® Core i5-4590K
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H81N
RAM: 8GB
HDD: 4G Flash Drive.

You could save some money if you look into a used server. These go from 50-500$ and survive better in a live rack.
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2019, 08:28:53 PM »
Maybe a laptop with a similar intel chipset and a smashed screen would be a perfect candidate for experimenting ,
I think I read  the OS is run from a  usb  memory plugged into the motherboard , it runs a live image with a ramdisk , Ive run up a few varieties of linux over the years and  that OS might  have enough drivers onboard to handle the multiple platforms used by SG.

Ok so lets assume we have the hardware side in the bag ,
let say we can get an image of a box fully loaded with plugs , and get it running ,
Now you need a second pc to run the daw end , that pc has SG software on it , that wants ,presumably
to authenticate or verify or phone home or check licenceing  ,surely ? 

I see a few of the  behringer X32 Rack mixers going cheap now in the second hand market , would make a nice head end for a sound grid server with masses of balanced I/O ,totally stand alone ,
 could also work great as  superpowered stagebox/splitter/mic amps/monitor/main outs and processing everything controlled from a front of house X32 via a single CAt5 cable,  life would never have been so simple for the sound engineer on the road .
The Waves SG card for X32 is 350 euros .


mhelin

Re: DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2019, 07:07:44 AM »
Waves SG Mobile Server isn't that expensive, 849€/$.

There used to be waves ftp server from where the SGS USB software could be downloaded but now the server  is gone. Anyway, apparently the r/livesound folks have succeeded cloning the OS (on USB dongle) and getting the server to be found by SoundGrid apps (Studio & MultiRack).

« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 12:40:47 PM by mhelin »


 

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