jason baliban

Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« on: July 14, 2019, 09:30:01 PM »
I have a TT patch that I am going to put in place in my studio.  I have a bunch of different locations that total 20 inputs.  I have 8 preamps that would utilize any of these 20 inputs.

I know the cautions of phantom through a patch as far as shorts.

So my question is how to wire the grounds for these mic/preamp stacks.  I plan to bus the grounds for all of the line level stuff from position 21 on, but i understand that may not be the way to go for the mic/pre stacks.

I have attached a pic of my patch plan.

Thank you so much for the help.

jason



boji

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 02:16:06 AM »
Rane Notes: Wiring, Interconnection and Grounding
Above info should help out, and then some. 

Also this: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22547.0

Edit: What kind of pres are you running? 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 03:17:48 AM by boji »

jason baliban

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 07:58:18 AM »
Rane Notes: Wiring, Interconnection and Grounding
Above info should help out, and then some. 

Also this: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22547.0

Edit: What kind of pres are you running?

Aurora 1073 clone and API.

jason

jason baliban

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 09:57:08 AM »
Another question for those of you have soldered a few patches in your day...

Should I remove the inputs, solder and then replace, or just solder down the row without removing?

jason

pucho812

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 11:06:16 AM »
Another question for those of you have soldered a few patches in your day...

Should I remove the inputs, solder and then replace, or just solder down the row without removing?

jason

i prefer to not dismantle the jacks  from the frame before soldering. i hate to lose the mounting screw. but ultimately that is up to you really.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

boji

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2019, 11:35:38 AM »
Quote
Aurora 1073 clone and API.
Mostly meant housing (lunchbox, u19, mixer).  I'll take a guess the older, more varied the gear (tube / SS) the more the need to be selective about how each insert gets its shield/ref.
Edit: Certainly they all should converge at some shared point. I've tentatively chosen an area inside the mixer frame.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 11:44:47 AM by boji »

jason baliban

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 05:37:46 PM »
My plan is to normal all stacks that have mic lines in them.  I am also going to connect the ground between the top and bottom, but keep them isolated per stack. 

This is what I came up with after some research.  Just wanted to update the thread before it dies.

If anyone has anything to add, please do.

Thanks for the help,

jason

boji

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 01:52:02 AM »
To drive home your q about where to tie chassis/ref pins, a timely post reinforces the pin 1 issue:
"(shield) for every XLR connector must have an exclusive, independent pathway to the chassis"

This is to say it looks to be in support of your desire to patch 'vertically' as you add more gear.  Good luck with your project!


Ilya

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 05:13:18 AM »
Make sure the ground of your mic lines connects directly to the ground of your preamp input. Otherwise the phantom won't work.
I had this problem with Neutrik TT bantam patchbay where the grounds between the jacks was isolated and not connected anywhere. I had to make solder bridges between special pads in order to make direct connection between grounds.
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2019, 03:15:13 AM »
Another question for those of you have soldered a few patches in your day...

Should I remove the inputs, solder and then replace, or just solder down the row without removing?

jason

once you have stuff wired in - i think you will find it SO MUCH EASIER to just pull individual jacks and solder/resolder etc - that's what i do - i just built up my bays that way - as i add a piece of gear i add a cable with a hardwired presoldered jack - just screw it in and you're done - rather than having to pull everything out if you need to add something - can't imagine doing it otherwise.


boji

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2019, 03:21:40 AM »
I vote for moving this thread into  'Studio A'  or 'The Lab' that way people that come later may find it more easily.

pucho812

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2019, 02:46:19 PM »
once you have stuff wired in - i think you will find it SO MUCH EASIER to just pull individual jacks and solder/resolder etc - that's what i do - i just built up my bays that way - as i add a piece of gear i add a cable with a hardwired presoldered jack - just screw it in and you're done - rather than having to pull everything out if you need to add something - can't imagine doing it otherwise.

around here we wire all the bays to edac's and the can connect it all and run it all at once. that way we never have to pull the bays out and everything is ready to go.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 05:40:00 PM »
around here we wire all the bays to edac's and the can connect it all and run it all at once. that way we never have to pull the bays out and everything is ready to go.

and what if you need to add or change out a piece of equipment? in my case it would be silly to use EDACs as the wire runs aren't greater than 30"/45cm or so - home studio  - for a commercial studio i could easily see doing something different - depends on so many things that might be more important though

Ilya

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 05:52:47 PM »
While EDACs are great for a large studio, they can be a PITA for small guys. First, you need crimping tools, and proper crimper is expensive. And crimping 5-6 EDACs is not worth the expense. Second, the connectors are quite expensive and not readily available in some locations. This means long lead times for some studios.
I personally would look into solder tails patchbay. Neutrik also has patchbays with quick connect terminals which look very promising. I haven't used them because they didn't make those patchbays when I wired the studio.

While you're working on the patchbay, I'd suggest that you connect most of its sockets to the cables. The other end of the cable may be not terminated. This is convenient, especially if you are wiring with multicore snakes. This way you may solder any connector you need when you get the gear ready.
PCBs, enclosures and build guides at www.rackneve.com

squarewave

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 06:44:33 PM »
I love patchbays and the Bantam / TT jack system in general. I have two solder lug switchcraft TTP96 half-normalled bays. I unscrew the bantam jacks mostly just so that I can move things around once in a while but also so that I can use them directly in other gear. It's cheaper than buying the bantam jacks separately. I've used them on front panels of channel strips and replacing banana jacks in old filter sets. At this point my racks look like synth. I would love to make a basic rack mount mixer that does all IO with Bantam jacks on the front.

pucho812

Re: Help with patchbay wiring for mic lines and phantom
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2019, 07:26:56 PM »
and what if you need to add or change out a piece of equipment? in my case it would be silly to use EDACs as the wire runs aren't greater than 30"/45cm or so - home studio  - for a commercial studio i could easily see doing something different - depends on so many things that might be more important though

simple.  the idea is patchbay to elco. elco - elco snake in-between patchbay and rack. and then in the rack elco to whatever. We need to move things, just repin the elco in the rack. We need to move the rack elsewhere, use a longer snake. We need to bug out and move to a different spot. disconnect the snake  and move things, then reconnect the sake in a new spot.

On the used market elco snakes are pennies on the dollar.   Elco pins come in two forms, solder kind and crimp kind.  Well worth the effort and durability.

For a smaller scale setup, could do the same concept but with all dsub connections and cables.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


 

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