Old API console cable.. 22ga?

Old brown cable from the 70's...only pictures I've seen are fairly low rez.  Anyone been inside an old API desk care to comment on the gauge of wire they used?  I'm going to guess 22ga dual core...  If it is 22ga, isn't that a little thick compared to modern patch runs or console interconnects? 

Thanks for your input!

Jeff Steiger must know the answer to this.

Thanks R,
Yeah I think he's vacationing this week. Didn't want to bug him.

I'll take any info about disco-era consoles' wire gauge if anyone has worked on some other brand.  Just curious if conventions have shifted to 26ga over time or if the thicker-jacketed 22ga has better noise rejection and therefore is still used for internal runs on big name consoles. This is turning into a drawing board question, isn't it? 

I don't know what the API lads used but "it depends". 22ga seems adequate for small signal stuff, power runs could use heavier ga. Ground bonding might use fatter.

JR

Many Olde desks used 1-pair, 22 gauge with a foil shield for internal audio wiring to modules, patchbays, etc.
Belden 8451 or equivalent.

Bri

The blue Gepco multicore is 22ga too. That stuff was also very popular for installs.  I was inside one of the first consoles  branded API. It used Belden 8451 for internal wiring.

You guys are the best. Thanks for the info!

In more recent times, I used Belden 9451.  One pair, 22 gauge, but the foil shield is bonded to the outer plastic jacket making installation much easier.  Gepco sells a very similar product:  61801EZ

Bri

That tan beldon wire doesn’t have a number on it in my console . It’s 22g but is a soft vinyl cover .  8451 is Teflon Coating wire. It’s actual stiffer than the tan wire in my console and more for pulling through conduit and channels in floors and such for ruggedness.  Also the capacitance per foot is pretty high on 8451.  It’s not that important with the low impedance path with transformers and 2520 output amp topology. 

Belden 8451 does NOT have a teflon jacket, but some sort of PVC.

I admit seeing some console wiring cables which are more "limber" than 8451, but I have no idea what that is.

Bri

Belden 8451 does NOT have a teflon jacket, but some sort of PVC.

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My bad Brian,  I thought that was Teflon,  Here I go again with the Fake news.  Whoops .
Anyway the tan wire is more flexible even after being made back in the 70's. 
Some Gepco versions ,  as previously mentioned,  have that quality as well with out being super soft like Mogami.  Mogami is nice for DB25 wiring and is very low Cap/ft .  For old Tascam Consoles, I prefer wiring with low cap/ft cable due to the higher working impedance of the I/O.

I used  8451 for external patch bays for years back in the 70's/80s, and felt it was good to work with , but with some consoles that are all electronic no transformers,  the cap/ft has an effect on topend .  That was more of a problem with Tape than with digital .  It seems like the top end could stand a little taming in some digital gear but thats a very subjective subject with too many variables.

fazer said:

Some Gepco versions ,  as previously mentioned,  have that quality as well with out being super soft like Mogami. 

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The black 24ga Gepco multicore has a softer jacket than the blue 22ga multicore. I think the black Gepco was introduced in the 1990's to compete with Mogami. I don't think I've ever seen Belden branded multicore used for an install. I know they make it though. The other choice was Canare but the multicore used a color code system instead of printing the number. No one like that so it wasn't often used.

Thank you for the extra info (and pict!)

Fairly sold now on .22ga for patch runs.  Where connects are under 3ft, I'll try out Mogami W2944.