pucho812

anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« on: December 02, 2019, 05:15:03 PM »
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


EmRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2019, 05:29:12 PM »
Those are the Langevin version of the Western Electric knob, the two look similar but there are differences.   So....no one makes them.....and they are expensive on the vintage market. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

pucho812

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 05:38:34 PM »
Those are the Langevin version of the Western Electric knob, the two look similar but there are differences.   So....no one makes them.....and they are expensive on the vintage market.

thanks for that.  unobtainium :(
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

EmRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 05:55:56 PM »
Tripping  me out, the (I assume) recreation of the Barton Kearney patch panel graphics.

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/kearney/

Funny most of the modules and faders don't have mounting screws.

3 of the VU meters have the paste-on decals for a Collins 356E tube compressor module.

Looks like a new 'tribute' old style console assemblage from various old parts to me. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

pucho812

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 06:59:27 PM »
Sure looks like it. I Jus wtas digging on those specific knobs... Perhaps if I could procure one knob, I could make more...
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

rackmonkey

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2019, 09:27:56 AM »
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 09:31:41 AM by rackmonkey »
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

EmRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2019, 10:19:06 AM »
Right!  He’s had that listed forever and now we see where some of the parts for this new custom console build came from.  His prices are always fishing schemes.   
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

rackmonkey

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2019, 09:24:44 AM »
Side view showing additional detail

« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 12:43:43 AM by rackmonkey »
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

EmRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2019, 09:48:49 AM »
I think those have to be custom clones, as all the WE and Langevin examples I've ever seen are bakelite. 

Here's one of each type that I have: 

« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 01:30:47 PM by EmRR »
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

rackmonkey

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2019, 09:59:05 AM »
Good to know. I’m gonna talk to my machinist buddy to get his take on how hard it would be to repro these.

edit: just saw your picture after I posted this. Those are cool, especially the green one. I’ve never seen one that color.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.


EmRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2019, 11:07:52 AM »
I haven't touched one in awhile, but I recall the skirt is a separate piece. 

« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 01:31:31 PM by EmRR »
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

pucho812

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2019, 04:49:56 PM »
wouldn't it be easier to have a stamp and die set up for this?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

rackmonkey

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2019, 12:22:35 AM »
I haven't touched one in awhile, but I recall the skirt is a separate piece.

That clarifies it, thanks. Not too hard then. See below.  (Nice assortment of colors you have. Super cool).

wouldn't it be easier to have a stamp and die set up for this?

it would have to be cast. I don’t think it would be realistic to do an extrusion of the mushroom portion, but I’m just okay at machining, have dabbled in casting, and have never done extrusions, so certainly no expert. And it wouldn’t have that machined look, which is part of the appeal to me anyway. But i’ll ask my expert friend about that.

But now that we know the skirt is a separate piece and that the pointer is part of it, it makes the whole thing less daunting. I got a brief answer from my machinist buddy and he told me that the mushroom portion was done on a lathe, with an off the shelf knurling jig. Once that’s done, the dead center is removed and the doming is done with the piece just chucked up and shaped with a rounding tool (whatever that is). He suspected that the pointer was part of the base, and that it would be a two step process of lathing the basic shape, then milling away some of the flat top of it and leaving the pointer. He was right on that, based on what EMRR posted.

Beyond my current skill level, but he thought any decent machine shop could  do it, and if you could create a CAD drawing of one, all but final finishing could be CNC’d, which could be done for reasonable cost.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 12:44:47 AM by rackmonkey »
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

PRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2019, 01:47:51 AM »
> a rounding tool (whatever that is).

Golly, NObody in the non-China world does lathe-work anymore. Search "rounding tool" and you get number-rounding apps, nurse making-rounds trackers, anything but what we want.

Here's a rounding tool for smaller work. The handle on the top pivots the cutting edge insert around the desired center. Build it bigger for that large radius. Since the knob does not need a large arc, but a big radius, there may be another way to rig the pivot to do just what is needed without huge size.
http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/TechLathe/OMWRadius/radius36.jpg
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 01:52:52 AM by PRR »

rackmonkey

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2019, 09:47:40 AM »
I’ve done some lathe metal work (tons of wood lathe work) but never had a need for a rounding tool for metal. But that picture looks like the ticket. The local used machine supply will probably have one. Otherwise, as usual these days, probably have to go on eBay and order something like that from China.

EMRR, if you have some calipers, could you measure the diameter of the base, the shaft and the top of one of those WE knobs? We could get the relative dimensions from the pics.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 09:53:57 AM by rackmonkey »
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

rackmonkey

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2019, 10:40:55 AM »
Hmmm....now I'll have to find them.....took those pictures years ago......

Okay no worries. I know how that is.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right.

EmRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2019, 01:29:13 PM »
No calipers here, so approximate 'close enough'.

Note differences in the skirt slope and pointer interaction with.

Western Electric
2 screws hold the skirt and pointer to the brass insert.  This one has a metal insert for the indicator line, there are also those with a standard paint infill.
skirt diameter 2-1/8"
shaft diameter 1"
top diameter 1-5/8"
height 1-1/4"

Langevin
the brass insert is crimped to hold the skirt
skirt diameter 2-1/16"
shaft diameter 1"
top diameter 1-9/16"
height 1-7/16"





Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

EmRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2019, 01:38:09 PM »
I like the RCA knob that was right before their introduction of the classic John Vassos 'mushroom' knob.   Brass pointer.   I believe it pre-dates the Western Electric knob, with the WE being a design response to the RCA:

Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

PRR

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2019, 01:48:37 PM »
> approximate 'close enough'.

Thanks and argh. I ass-umed 6-inch deck boards, calipered my deck, fotoshoped your image, and got numbers. When I went to post I saw your post and I am clearly very wrong. But maybe the ratios are valid and some help.

> measure the diameter of the base

The boards may be '6 inch' nominal decking, which ships wet and oversize, to give at least 5.5" when dry. Here in a damp autumn my by-6 deckboards caliper as 5.6", his look dryer. Taking 5.5" nominal we can scale-out the along-board skirt dimension as 2.94" which is probably a neat 3". Knowing the skirt is round, we can get transverse sizes. We can't get a height without knowing the angle of photography, but I took a guess based on the shadows of the board gaps.

skirt: 3"
stalk: 1.4-1.5"
top: 2.45"
height: roughly 1.9"
skirt height: rough 0.19"
pointer height above skirt: rough 0.29"
pointer width: 0.28"
width of groove on top: 0.15"
knurling: 18 per inch
bevel on top edge: 0.065"

Re: anyone know where to get these kind of knobs?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2019, 04:35:09 PM »
Had five original WE black knobs, picked them up in New York before the twin towers for $2.00 ea. I should have had the foresight to buy 10-15 of them. Sold them on flea bay to a guy in Japan for $125.00.


 

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