Need ideas for a mixing console enclosure

[sponzorb]

OK, cool...basically a summing unit used with a DAW,

Buy a stash of your chosen knobs ahead of time so you can lay them out in "realtime" on paper to suss out the feel (and maybe the look? lol...chicken head knobs vs. newer looks)

You raised an eyebrow with me on:

"High Shelf (concentric pot with switchable frequency)
Low Shelf (concentric pot with switchable frequency)"

Have you actually found a source for those? If, so....excellent. On my large desk I special ordered those stacked/dual concentric pots from Bourns....minimum order for each assembly was 100 pieces IIRC.

Thanks for your comment re. my "monster" <g>.

Bri

I was planning to get some of the grayhill switches used by CAPI (and alike) but that might not be feasible in smaller quantities (32). If not, I would end up doing a separate button switch(es) to toggle between 2 or 4 frequencies on the low shelf and keep the high shelf fixed.

good call with the knobs — it’ll give some more momentum to the project too, seeing them in real life! do you have any knob sources worth sharing? i’ve been looking at tubesandmore.com

 

[Brian Roth]

LOL.....choosing knobs is a personal choice! You prefer blonds or redheads? Bourbon or Scotch? <G!!>

The knobs on my desks came from Rogan....they sell some online, but I don't see the same items I special ordered.

https://roganknobs.com/
I've used some knobs from:

http://ehcknobs.com/
I don't know your tastes in size/shape/color/materials so I I'm just tossing out ideas. Keep in mind, small quantities of your " WOW THAT IS COOL LOOKING" knobs usually require 100+ minimum orders. When Radio Shack was around, I found some knobs there I liked for one-off gizmos. Alas......

Look at Mouser and Digikey for off-the shelf options?

Bri

/Edit "Stacked" knobs for concentric knobs/switches are a special order item.

 

[Brian Roth]

Power supply is a tough one. I read somewhere once that transformers can increase the power requirements? That’s a big reason I’m going with the InGenius ICs for balancing the inputs. I’m not really sure how to determine the power requirements, so any advice there is super appreciated. I was considering just using an already existing power supply like the API L200 PSU since I have it already and the console will mostly be using 2520 type op amps. I’m not certain it will supply enough current though.

Sorry, I missed that part of your thread until just now. I think you currently own this?....

https://www.apiaudio.com/product.php?id=118
https://www.apiaudio.com/docs/brochures/brl200ps.pdf
Two amps per rail is a fairly juicy PSU! Are you using it for any other tasks in your system? IE, any other 500 racks at the same time?

Quoting:

"I read somewhere once that transformers can increase the power requirements?"

My Grandad Roth would have said "Horse Raddish" lol ! Transformers do NOT inherently increase power requirements by themselves. The *particular circuits* they are used in MAY require higher current supplies, but NOT SOLELY because that circuit happens to use a xfmr.

THAT ICs (InGenius and OutSmarts) are well-proven chips in Pro applications. I'm sure someone here will argue with my opinion, but whatever....

What you need to do is "inventory" how many chips and 2520s are in your final design. From that we can suss the size of the required power supply.

Best,

Bri

 

[GussyLoveridge]

There is a company from my home town (I have no affiliation whatsoever) called Protocase who make bespoke enclosures to your specs. They have a kind of CAD-lite design tool on their website. I believe that a bunch of GDIY users have used them before. I have definitely seen photos of a mess of REDD47 preamps built into their cases that looked beautiful - I think they are at the Bunker Studio in Brooklyn - I could be wrong on this.

I don't think Protocase is cheap but they do make a nice product and if you're putting that kind of money into a custom console it would be worth having it look as great as it sounds. You could also likely use their product and incorporate some nice wood working that you do and keep costs down.

https://www.protocase.com/
Good luck - I am very excited to see this progress!

 

[Barry Farmer]

Hi folks, first post here, so sorry if this is the wrong section. I’m in the process of designing and eventually building a 16 channel mixing console - 8 mono channels and 4 stereo channels. Each channel will be input balanced via THAT 1206 chips, sent to a gain stage controlled by a 2520 type op amp, then to a high/low baxandall shelving filter in a 2520 type op amp, then to a summing section with switchable output stages / transformers for different coloration options. The transformers have been sourced and the options will be Neve style with the BA283 line driver to carnhill transformer (maybe switchable between the 2n3055 and a germanium power transistor), or API style with 2520 to a steel cinemag CMOB-2S transformer, or a 990 to a high nickel cinemag CMOB-1H transformer. There are 13 channels in total including the Mix Buss.

This is a lot of stuff obviously and I need an enclosure that can hold it all. I specifically would like a desktop unit so it can have faders and knobs for the pan, eqs, trim. I found a 20”x11” hammond enclosure that might be able to fit it all with 1.53” per channel, but there’s a minimum order of 10 units with milling and printing. I’m planning to just build one for myself and I wasn’t planning to start a business. I’m an electronics guy and don’t really know anything about the enclosure side of things. Does anyone have any ideas how to properly get a mixing console enclosure built, drilled, and printed? I’m totally open and in fact partial to having modular channels, but I wouldn’t know where to begin getting that metalwork done!

Colouration? Sorry, Captain, boring old pro-engineer here...... Dump the Colouration (read: Distortion) stages for now and use the nice THAT balance O/P ic's. There's plenty of ways of screwing-up your sound-stream further on down the line if you really feel the need!

 

[SoundBlaster]

I built a modular 8 channel console back in the late 80's. Struggled with the chassis too. I ended up building channels on single and double rack space panels Each module being a convenient 19" I ended up making the console housing out of birch Plywood with aluminum angle stock for attaching the rack panels at top and bottom. Look at Ebay for used radio station consoles. There's lots of options for under $500! and they have a lot of parts you may be able to re-use.

 

[DarkSky]

Also to be borne in mind, is that adding significant amounts of metal makes the frame very heavy, and even moreso when the metal is steel and/or thick. That has several implications, not least being impact on decisions about where and how to assemble.

The frame of the 32 chan desk here is so heavy that even with all modules etc removed it's (at least) a three person job to lift it (and about a six person job to raise/move it comfortably).

Even the sixteen channel project under discussion here will get pretty heavy once significant amounts of metal are added to the frame.

 

[sponzorb]

Colouration? Sorry, Captain, boring old pro-engineer here...... Dump the Colouration (read: Distortion) stages for now and use the nice THAT balance O/P ic's. There's plenty of ways of screwing-up your sound-stream further on down the line if you really feel the need!

while i’m at it i’ll start recording my guitar only DI and ditch my tube amp.

oh and i’ll stop using vintage reverbs and bucket brigade delay since that’s impure as well!

 

[nielsk]

If you can find an old broadcast desk, many of those had welded steel frames with the entire face plate hinged and a usable meter bridge. Totally doable to make a new face plate out of aluminum, say 3/16", and have cut outs for 500 slots, pots & switches, whatever... plenty of places will make whatever you design, anodized and engraved...
No need for mother boards as you have easy access to the rear of everything to plug in connectors.
Easy-peasy to hinge up the front panel to wire it out & work on it, and usually plenty of room to put output amps in the back.
Adding a fader tray to the front & a bolster works nice if you don't want big knob rotary faders (but why wouldn't you?)
I have a stripped RCA frame with stereo meters that would be perfect that you can have, you just have to pick it up in Florida!

 

[Graham Nystrom]

Link below to pics of 8 Studer 903 strips for which I am designing and machining a console chassis for producer and drummer John McEntire. (Name drop!) It will feature a CAPI ACA/Booster summing section. Credit to Labo-K for the Studer racking kits.

But wait- first off: homage to the gurus as always. Hello Bri, JR, Ian and co.

Second off: I've been laying pretty low as I DIY my designs and workflow, but I am ready to show you all some progress since this thread is pretty much my whole MO for doing "XFO Audio". It's just me, and not I'm not profitable or here to sell. Just here to participate and hopefully help.

So yes, I am working on a solution to this problem for the DIY community, home recordists and studios. Gone are the days of the large format console but we still need that build quality and workflow in the microcosm.

I call my concept the "Variable Format Console (VFC)" in homage to our analog recording roots on those beautiful aircraft carrier-sized amplifiers of music-bearing electrons. And yes, clearly I like three letter acronyms, but please, I'm not CIA, FBI, NSA, DEA, etc. Just a DUD(E).

So like I said, I'm still developing circuits, layouts etc, but I do hope to be able offer chassis options, not just bucket options for DIY mixers. Most people that record now need to set up 2 headphone mixes, run a couple stereo effects and feed a few outputs with maybe some insert send and returns. That should all fit in the space of a small Mackie. Only SSL is doing small format high quality stuff, and I just don't love the sound of those circuits. Not enough transformer character. (None at all in fact.)

In the pics you'll see I'm starting with my favorite gain block of all time, the venerable John Hall AM16 circuit orginally sold as a Langevin product.

Eventually I want to offer parts kits for DOA style pres as well that run on +/-16 to 18V and then expand into eq and basic routing modules. Maybe 500 series implementation options down the road. Though part of the reason I'm on this path is because I don't care for the 500 series format and want to offer a more robust and dedicated option that can funtion like a complete console, monitor controller etc. And being fully modular, it can be you can start with two channels, but easily expand to 4 channels, 8 channels etc. I dream of a USB transport on big silent tactile buttons as well. Oh and nice feeling faders of course. I love faders and loathe to see most engineers fear using them in favor of a thousand mouse clicks.

Everything I come up with I hope to make available as a DIY kit on the white market and I really hope to fill the gap that was basically my impetus for buying a cnc machine. Namely. I need a dang fader plate and I don't want to spend $500 at a machine shop to get a prototype that didn't end up being right.

Side note: For structural issues, I have found these keystone 621 4/40 threaded l brackets to be the best way to connect the pieces together. Routing out a channel for them has been a big help in them not being too squirrely. I tried bending aluminum, but retaining required precision is tough, or I need a better brake.

https://www.keyelco.com/userAssets/file/M65p118.pdf
In my little way, in my little garage, I am trying to bring a bit of that old school, hand-built-to-last, American quality manufacturing back to studio audio. I can afford to do it because I am not a huge corporation and I have low overhead. Big thanks to Ken Hirsch at Orphan Audio and David Geren at Cinemag Transformers for their help with all things John Hall.

Here are the questions I ask about gear in order of importance.
How does it sound?
How does it feel?
Is it built to last forever?
Can it easily be maintained and repaired by me or a tech with basic skills?
Does it look cool?

The answers need to be:
Like the instrument is in the room with me.
Like I'm pushing buttons and flipping levers on the Space Shuttle
Yes it is.
Yes it can.
I don't care, but hopefully yes.

Public Link to Photos

Hope that wasn't too long winded or off topic.

 

[Gold]

For control knobs you could look at OKW. They have a wide selection and a minimum order of 10pcs of anything via the US distributor. I use them. I like them.

 

[Graham Nystrom]

love my switches . com is also good.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

What if I plated the wood case with aluminum sheets? Should that be a sufficient EMI deterrent?

[What if I plated the wood case with aluminum sheets?] -- There is "conductive" or "metalized" paint that can be used for that purpose (i.e., "shielding").

[Should that be a sufficient EMI deterrent?] -- Ask the experts. This question is beyond my paygrade!!!

/

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Can you give the part number of the Hammond unit you found.

Cheers

ian

[Can you give the part number of the Hammond unit you found] -- (sponzorb) The HAMMOND enclosure is 1456WL1WHBU:






/

 

[Brian Roth]

If you can find an old broadcast desk, many of those had welded steel frames with the entire face plate hinged and a usable meter bridge. Totally doable to make a new face plate out of aluminum, say 3/16", and have cut outs for 500 slots, pots & switches, whatever... plenty of places will make whatever you design, anodized and engraved...
No need for mother boards as you have easy access to the rear of everything to plug in connectors.
Easy-peasy to hinge up the front panel to wire it out & work on it, and usually plenty of room to put output amps in the back.
Adding a fader tray to the front & a bolster works nice if you don't want big knob rotary faders (but why wouldn't you?)
I have a stripped RCA frame with stereo meters that would be perfect that you can have, you just have to pick it up in Florida!

Les Paul's custom desk was based on that concept. Here's a pic with the entire front panel opened up:

https://www.preservationsound.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/PreviewScreenSnapz0011.png
Original magazine cover and story:



Bri

 

[MidnightArrakis]

adding significant amounts of metal makes the frame very heavy

[adding significant amounts of metal makes the frame very heavy] -- Heavy-Metal???.....(power-chord twang)!!!

/

 

[DarkSky]

[What if I plated the wood case with aluminum sheets?] -- There is "conductive" or "metalized" paint that can be used for that purpose (i.e., "shielding").

[Should that be a sufficient EMI deterrent?] -- Ask the experts. This question is beyond my paygrade!!!

/

I've used that stuff (conductive paint) on the inside walls of P/UP cavities of electric guitars - with single-coil pickups, the reduction in interference (hum) is certainly noticeable. So it does do something.

How well its effectiveness would compare to aluminium sheets (or steel, or mu-metal etc.) is another matter.

 

[Philbo King]

IMHO, it is a GOOD idea to enclose the circuitry in some sort of metal enclosure. Olde School desks had a metal outer "shell" wrapping around everything. Neve took that to another level with a metal outer shell AND each audio module within its own "small" metal enclosure.

In these times, we live in an incredibly noisy environment. Cell phones, LED lighting, etc.

Bri

Yes. At least line the inside of a wood enclosure with grounded copper foil or conductive paint.

 

[sponzorb]

Update here:

I have decided to make the console modular because I want to be able to move it myself if needed.

I think a pretty cool design would be:

A custom built 500 series style 3U 19” rack with 8 slots + a summing section for the slots

There will then be 8 channels per slot with:
- switchable mic and line preamp (heavily inspired by a combination of API 312 and 325, but i would use a THAT 1206 to receive balanced input on the line)
- pad
- pan
- mute
- insert send/return (not supported in 500 series but it will be added to the rack)
- gain
- fader

These 8 channels will get summed to a virtual ground summing bus driven by a 2520 DOA and balanced by an output transformer or OutSmart IC (switchable for dialing in color as needed)

There will then be a module that acts as the main bus which accepts up to 4 stereo busses (via db25) and sums the busses from the 8 channel busses mentioned above into a main bus (maybe using voltage summing since they’ll all be on balanced outputs?). the main bus will have switchable output stage / coloration options between vintage API 2520 steel / Neve style BA283 carnhill / Modern 990 op amp high nickel

Each of these 3U units will then act as 8 channels of a console. They could then be laid out on a desk like in the link below with 500 series EQs patched into the channel insert, giving an extendable 8-32 channel console experience, but it would be totally modular and rack based.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1241820623/
I’m sure I’m not the first person to have this idea so if there are any obvious holes in this plan please let me know!

 

[JohnRoberts]

Back in the 70s I briefly considered designing and selling kit consoles. I had fun fleshing out definitions for modular building blocks that could be cobbled together to generate multiple different and useful mixer configurations.

I soon realized that this approach would never be cost effective to compete against purpose built value mixers. But it was fun to think about.

JR