¿how to protect a hardware design?

[JAY X]

Hi,

How do makers protect their mic preamp, compressor, mixer designs?

I know there are a few possibilities: As industrial designs, utility models or patents...or simply copyright..??

Most audio circuits are well known and not susceptible to protection: a buffer, a fader amplifier, etc...
but the overall aspect of the finished product...?

For example: a maker of a 19"rack preamp or compressor, IF it is NOT REALLY TECHNICALLY NEW, just could ask for protection to the overall aspect of the device... right?  ( the volume knob there... a switch there... audio connectors on the rear panel...there and there... )etc...  and may ask to apply to an UTILITY MODEL...¿is this correct? as far as i have read...i am not sure...

Of course if there is a trademark, it is necessary  to register it, this is clear and the procedure is well known.

Any contribution is wellcome!!
thank you very much!
JAY X

 

[okgb]

Don't let it go to China for manufacture ?
I can't offer any good advice because I don't have experience, but
Massenburg seems to be pretty exclusive, High priced not mass marketed
not seen that often [ wonder if he make's much ? ]

 

[JohnRoberts]

Hi,

How do makers protect their mic preamp, compressor, mixer designs?

AFAIK they don't... Patents only apply to novel circuits, not the nth version of some dbx app notes.

I know there are a few possibilities: As industrial designs, utility models or patents...or simply copyright..??

You can copyright PCB layouts which in theory should prevent a literal copy of the PCB layout, I have seen many PCB with copyright notice, I am not aware of anyone being prosecuted for ripping off a layout. I have seen serial copiers go so far as to copy blocks of text from owners manuals (which are generally copyrighted), and one even copied the specs off my data sheet (for a small Peavey mixer). The data sheet rip was impossible to prove because in theory, while statistically very unlikely, they could come up with the same specs for the nearly identical product (I'm 99.99% sure they copied mine).

Most audio circuits are well known and not susceptible to protection: a buffer, a fader amplifier, etc...
but the overall aspect of the finished product...?

"Design" patents cover recognizable unique shapes (like coke bottle). Many common products have panel layouts pretty much dominated by function most mixer look pretty similar because of that.

Trade dress is protectable intellectual property. Like the way all Fluke VOM look alike (colors, type fonts, etc). I have heard of court cases defending protected trade dress.

Another piece of IP that can be used is brand logos that when trademarked can offer some protection for a successful brand.

For example: a maker of a 19"rack preamp or compressor, IF it is NOT REALLY TECHNICALLY NEW, just could ask for protection to the overall aspect of the device... right?  ( the volume knob there... a switch there... audio connectors on the rear panel...there and there... )etc...  and may ask to apply to an UTILITY MODEL...¿is this correct? as far as i have read...i am not sure...

Of course if there is a trademark, it is necessary  to register it, this is clear and the procedure is well known.

Any contribution is wellcome!!
thank you very much!
JAY X

If you can manage to come up with an iconic, unique preamp or compressor panel layout, you are a better man than I...

I have 9 "utility" patents but they are for novel circuits that do (IMO) useful things. AFAIK Utility patents are pursued in the audio industry while "design" patents are not widely used. In my experience even utility patents do not provide perfect protection. One of my most valuable inventions (at Peavey), inspired a competitor to make their own version (copy) and filed their own patent for a minor design variant and won in court (golden rule).

Good luck... I'm not smart enough to sell me-too products, and apparently not to even protect unique ones.  .

JR

 

[sahib]

Don't waste your time thinking about it.

Get your product out there, sell as many as you can and move onto the next one.

 

[audiomixer]

actually, open sourcing the design might even be beneficial for your sales. I think if people recognize the added value or the intellectual feat, combined with attractive business models might bring you further.
an example - I bought a twistedpear digital audio gadget. schematics available, I even have the chips here. but pushing a own layout is mucho more work so I bought some boards. good service, attractive price, been a returning costumer....

I am sure many will chime in....

- Michael

 

[pucho812]

from what I have seen you cannot copy right a circuit usually. But you can copyright a drawing of one as it would then be considered art. Not sending to china is a good one for sure.  But over all do something unique  so that if and when it gets copied the masses go, do I want another one of that when I already have this.

 

[ruffrecords]

Hi,

How do makers protect their mic preamp, compressor, mixer designs?
JAY X

Unless it contains something novel that can be patented then it is very hard to protect a design. However, there are ways to protect the implementation of the design. The most straightforward is perhaps the registered Design:

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/design/d-about/d-protect.htm

This can protect the appearance and even the PCB layout of your design and is stronger and easier to enforce than copyright.

Cheers

Ian

 

[thermionic]

Unless you think your circuit will make you more than 1-million USD (some would argue 2+) then a patent isn't worth it. Secondly, unless you've got the budget and the inclination to fight the patent, then many will argue it's worthless. Consider that less than around 1% of patents are legally disputed... Do you think the other 99% do not clash in any way?

A good example of patents:

Quad's 'current dumping' amplifier. It kept other OEMs from using the topology for 25 years.

Black+Decker's 'Workmate'. It was designed by an ex-Lotus employee. He licensed it to B+D on the grounds they give him a few cents for each one sold. Suffice to say, he isn't short of money. However, he polices the patent proactively and is notoriously litigious towards copiers.

When Mackie sued Behringer for copying their 8-Buss (it was for a *lot* of money - this was the 90s) they did so in British courts, the theory being UK courts are the best place to set a precedent, whereupon you can sue in other territories. Beh copied the design so comprehensively their copy even had crosstalk in the sends... In the end no one won in the court apart from the lawyers. Mackie lost a lot of money. The judge actually criticised Mackie for not registering the design. Had they done so he could've ruled in their favour. However, Beh did settle out of court for an undisclosed sum...

Unless your idea is *big time* then follow Sahib's advice. It costs little to register a design, so it's always a good deterrent, albeit subject to the caveats already mentioned when it comes to defending it...

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Think about building a brand along with your products.  A brand people can trust, that they like and feel loyal to.

 

[okgb]

this one falls into the " if you can't be a rockstar, be a rockstar song writer , or whatever is selling

Black+Decker's 'Workmate'. It was designed by an ex-Lotus employee. He licensed it to B+D on the grounds they give him a few cents for each one sold. Suffice to say, he isn't short of money. However, he polices the patent proactively and is notoriously litigious towards copiers.

Getting a successful licencing deal [ just as hard as trying to sell a song ? ] everything's there if you can get it.
John , anyone licence stuff to peavey ? they strike me as too cheap.

 

[JohnRoberts]

this one falls into the " if you can't be a rockstar, be a rockstar song writer , or whatever is selling

Black+Decker's 'Workmate'. It was designed by an ex-Lotus employee. He licensed it to B+D on the grounds they give him a few cents for each one sold. Suffice to say, he isn't short of money. However, he polices the patent proactively and is notoriously litigious towards copiers.

Getting a successful licencing deal [ just as hard as trying to sell a song ? ] everything's there if you can get it.
John , anyone licence stuff to peavey ? they strike me as too cheap.

;D ;D ;D Yes Peavey is sharp pencil, but duh...

I lived through several spectacular market failures based on licensed outside technology, and a much smaller subset of successful outside inspired projects. While it may be entertaining I will not rehash the failures but one notable success still trucking is "Media Matrix". The technology developed by Peak Audio for a DSP computer based fixed install sound system, that could replace all the racks and racks full of processing gear that it used to take to make a stadium work with a rack mount computer and I/O box, not to mention the miles of wiring (and labor) to connect all the boxes together that it replaced. 

This was a strong business decision since that install market was not very Peavey friendly, but their only choice was to either spec in Peavey's Media Matrix or lose the job because the old school way was so much more expensive.  ;D  (technology is good, and can create an economic market advantage if you are smart enough to get on board first.)

JR

PS: For a few years I was the outside technology officer reviewing all the outside technology submissions and I never saw one that I would salute, but maybe that's my little personal problem.  8)