2 Crown DC-300A's

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Neve use a multiplicity of voltages in the earlier desks. I also when I replaced their DC multicores shortened the new ones from 12 odd metres to making 4 metre runs and strapped direct to the supply bus bars in the desk instead of using the multi pin Amphenol plugs at the connection panels underneath the desk. Common ground at the centre of the console where the power rails are.
 
This one - apparently can be configured for SSL4000 and Neve VR.

Though I don't think the VR has much in the way of Class A.

And it is actually quiet enough to put in the control room and chop all the long cables, but we didn't do that, just literally took the connectors off the old monstrocity of heat and noise, and plugged it into this.
5 minutes.
So I didn't get paid much.

https://www.malcolmtoft.com/mpowersystems
 
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This one - apparently can be configured for SSL4000 and Neve VR.

Though I don't think the VR has much in the way of Class A.

And it is actually quiet enough to put in the control room and chop all the long cables, but we didn't do that, just literally took the connectors off the old monstrocity of heat and noise, and plugged it into this.
5 minutes.
So I didn't get paid much.

https://www.malcolmtoft.com/mpowersystems
Look damn nice. Lot of filtering there too - very quiet by the look. I can see the convenience of a drop in solution. My build came in under $3KAU for two independent rack drawer modules with 6 separate voltage supplies per drawer including phantom, 5 of them being heavy duty. The lucky part of all that is the extensive filtering contained in the 5106 itself as they used 3rd party Kingshill supplies and built the desk around those - filter caps on the power bus rails plus on-card filtering for every rail at each chip stage. Hence so many boiled caps in these things - I did a complete re-cap of the whole desk - all DC filters and all electrolytics on all 36 channel, Aux, monitor and master modules plus bus compressors.
 
Caveat - ours has Ultimation moving faders, so we had to keep that noisy power supply in the rack, the Toft doesn't do that bit.

5v, +/-15v and a fader motor supply I forget for now.
Not that difficult really.
 
Caveat - ours has Ultimation moving faders, so we had to keep that noisy power supply in the rack, the Toft doesn't do that bit.

5v, +/-15v and a fader motor supply I forget for now.
Not that difficult really.
Maybe you could build an options power pack for the ancillary hardware in a 1RU tray module - a dual rail 15 and a 5 - convection cooled - the automation can’t draw too much current so the low profile supplies would be a possibility. Couple of caps and filter chokes inline in the tray but as it’s not in the audio path you may not even need that.
 
No, I just fix broken stuff.



Seriously, how many hours do you think it will take to design, build, test, redesign the power supply you are suggesting?
 
No, I just fix broken stuff.



Seriously, how many hours do you think it will take to design, build, test, redesign the power supply you are suggesting?
Took me less than 12 hours for design to finish including cabling. Took another couple to run and connect cabling to the Neve. Fair bit of time needed to plot and drill the mounting holes as I stood the supplies on their sides. I had to use a clamp meter to find current drain from existing supplies to determine which I would use and also gauge of cable to source DC multicore - I used 2 cores each for the hot and commons for the -15V and +16V, -16V runs - common not connected to earth here.
To do yours is a doddle- all you need to know is the current required for each and multiply by 1.8 to give you plenty of power headroom - keeps them cool - and find a supply that fits the bill. If you can’t find the right dual use two singles. You can fit 3 supplies in one rack tray or drawer sitting flat and depending on size all three can have the same orientation or set 2 east/west and 1 north/south.
Design time is virtually none as all you need to do is source the supplies, a rack drawer, a power socket and switch, cable glands for cable ingress to the drawer and terminal strips for cabling, bolting hardware, crimp terminals and crimper - also checking the dimensions of the supplies to ensure they’ll fit. The dimensions of the supplies are contained in the specs for each supply. Best to ring the local distributor and get them to work out which supplies can do the job once you know the current drain specs.
Build time is not very much if you have a plan and just punch into it. Probably 5 or 6 hours.
Drawer is great as you just slide it out to view supply status LED’s and trim the voltage.
I used adjustable supplies so I can trim the voltage to be correct at the desk - no sense lines needed. Also got ones with fans, found they were too noisy, ripped them off and used a single large superquiet fan - but in your instance you could use convection cooled.
 
Quote
Design time is virtually none as all you need to do is source the supplies, a rack drawer, a power socket and switch, cable glands for cable ingress to the drawer and terminal strips for cabling, bolting hardware, crimp terminals and crimper - also checking the dimensions of the supplies to ensure they’ll fit.
Unquote

Er, this is the problem, isn't it.

This is the time you put into the design you don't get paid for.
 
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I have 2 dc-300a's in the shop and would appreciate any help offered.

#1 This one takes 3.5 minutes to for the positive side to stabilize and after that it will work OK. See pics of the output below.

#2 This one has 62VDC on the output of one channel and all the output and driver devices test good in the circuit. I suspect a bad zener, but haven't found any that read bad (yet).

The big drawback to being able to repair these is that the schematic I have isn't the circuit in these amps. The schemo I have show 20v Zeners and no IC, while these amps have 10v Zeners and an IC. Very odd.

View attachment 114002View attachment 114003View attachment 114004
On any DC-300 C4, 10/150V, is a weak link. C4 is the input capacitor for the voltage doubler and I almost always found them open, vented or otherwise degraded.
 
On any DC-300 C4, 10/150V, is a weak link. C4 is the input capacitor for the voltage doubler and I almost always found them open, vented or otherwise degraded.
Yeah that positive clip that comes good looks like a sagging cap somewhere. Might be worth metering the output of the doubler at turn-on to see what it does.
 
I think the high ripple current kills C4 over time. The doubler is bootstrapped on top of the positive rail.
C4 usually shows physical signs of venting.
 
I was never a fan of the DC300 topology. Quasi-complementary output stages forgo some speed for stability to make NPNs behave like bigger PNPs. That said Crown had so much success with the DC300 series that they repackaged the amp design to make their later CE1000/CE2000 amps. They just swapped SMD for thru hole parts, plastic for metal power transistors. They made some spectacular mistakes in the repackage like undersized emitter degeneration resistors, that tended to burn holes in the PCB when output devices fail shorted. But they made a healthy profit without redesigning a power amp. At the time they made the bigger CE4000 model class D. I feel sorry for the amp product manager trying to explain that amp series to customers. ;)

JR
 
I was never a fan of the DC300 topology. Quasi-complementary output stages forgo some speed for stability to make NPNs behave like bigger PNPs. That said Crown had so much success with the DC300 series that they repackaged the amp design to make their later CE1000/CE2000 amps. They just swapped SMD for thru hole parts, plastic for metal power transistors. They made some spectacular mistakes in the repackage like undersized emitter degeneration resistors, that tended to burn holes in the PCB when output devices fail shorted. But they made a healthy profit without redesigning a power amp. At the time they made the bigger CE4000 model class D. I feel sorry for the amp product manager trying to explain that amp series to customers. ;)

JR
They went through so many changes in transistors for the outputs - the first run were unreliable Solitron, then RCA - slow, STC - faster unreliable, back to RCA, Westinghouse - curved bases causing failure internally when bolted hard to heatsink, back to RCA, finally Westinghouse with a flat base - if I got all that correct. There was a raft of so many other production changes it was hard to keep track.
 
I believe the original "4558's" were by Raytheon and CROWN later switched over to National Semiconductor. But, I do remember the service technicians telling me that the cost of the IC replacements themselves, in addition to the company cost of servicing all of those VFX's was costing the company tons of money!!!
Every chip on the older Neves was socketed not soldered - saves a lot of time and board damage to replace them when (not if) they fail. I think from a service point of view that a lot of designs don’t incorporate ease of service into the product - bad component placement, non socketed IC’s requiring removal of boards to replace, use of hard to obtain parts, components on the threshold of tolerance either voltage or temperature wise (eg capacitors), resistors that run too hot close to PCB’s, voltage regulators without heatsinks, interconnect cables too short to be able to remove and run boards out of place, poor case ventilation and inaccessible service documentation.
SMD use in equipment has led to board replacement instead of board service (although I do service SMD populated boards) which runs to high cost after warranty repairs if the user can’t find a tech willing to do on-board service.
Having run a high tech music store for over 10 years I saw the trend of customers shying away from products with a bad parts replacement/availability history - for a professional musician to be without a keyboard, or a studio without a key piece of rack gear for 3 - 4 months because of waiting until the importer fills a container to ship in parts is a deal breaker. Being a warranty service agent for many different brands I’ve still had to source parts from Europe, Asia or USA outside the support of the warranty and not from the brand agency but third party.
 
Every chip on the older Neves was socketed not soldered - saves a lot of time and board damage to replace them when (not if) they fail. I think from a service point of view that a lot of designs don’t incorporate ease of service into the product - bad component placement, non socketed IC’s requiring removal of boards to replace, use of hard to obtain parts, components on the threshold of tolerance either voltage or temperature wise (eg capacitors), resistors that run too hot close to PCB’s, voltage regulators without heatsinks, interconnect cables too short to be able to remove and run boards out of place, poor case ventilation and inaccessible service documentation.
SMD use in equipment has led to board replacement instead of board service (although I do service SMD populated boards) which runs to high cost after warranty repairs if the user can’t find a tech willing to do on-board service.
Having run a high tech music store for over 10 years I saw the trend of customers shying away from products with a bad parts replacement/availability history - for a professional musician to be without a keyboard, or a studio without a key piece of rack gear for 3 - 4 months because of waiting until the importer fills a container to ship in parts is a deal breaker. Being a warranty service agent for many different brands I’ve still had to source parts from Europe, Asia or USA outside the support of the warranty and not from the brand agency but third party.
I was working at Peavey when we decided to stop putting all ICs in sockets. Indeed sockets save time and money performing repairs but analysis revealed that ICs got better so failed less frequently, and most failures occurred in input or output sockets where failure stresses likely came from the outside world.

We had machines that inserted both the sockets and the ICs so labor was not a big cost, and sockets when you buy them by the truckload are not very expensive, but they were not a zero cost, and a secondary issue came come from sockets that develop bad connections over time. IIRC we kept sockets under the IC in inputs/outputs.

Of course changing to SMD technology made sockets moot...

JR
 
I was never a fan of the DC300 topology. Quasi-complementary output stages forgo some speed for stability to make NPNs behave like bigger PNPs. That said Crown had so much success with the DC300 series...

A large part of Crown's success, and why the DC300 was DC-coupled, was its' use in industrial applications.
DC300s drove a lot of shaker tables.
Decades ago Russ Berger was giving a tour of the studio to the Crown rep who explained to me that large amounts of DC300s had been sold to debeak poultry. Though fowl I suppose it's something to crow about...

Our problem was Crown Delta-Omega's de-voice-coiling speakers.
The negative impedance damping would crack the aluminum form near the cone.
 
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A large part of Crown's success, and why the DC300 was DC-coupled, was it's use in industrial applications.
DC300s drove a lot of shaker tables.
Decades ago Russ Berger was giving a tour of the studio to the Crown rep who explained to me that large amounts of DC300s had been sold to debeak poultry. Though fowl I suppose it's something to crow about...

Our problem was Crown Delta-Omega's de-voice-coiling speakers.
The negative impedance damping would crack the aluminum form near the cone.
At Peavey we had to honor many loudspeaker warranty claims for speaker failures that were caused by other manufacturer's amps. I do not recall any (many?) that were related to DC300 specifically, but being DC coupled the DC300s were notorious for that. The biggest warranty suck hole that I recall was caused by the current limiting in an early series of inexpensive QSC power amps that had the bad habit of clipping asymmetrically putting DC across the loudspeakers. The popular street wisdom was that the QSC amps were too powerful for the Peavey speakers but that was not the case. QSC eventually figured it out and corrected their rogue current limiting, but since QSC was not making and selling loudspeakers back then, they were not as focussed as we were on such things.

JR

PS; Back in the 70s when I was working at VSC (variable speech control) the company making pitch shifters for sped up talking books, we did a joint project with Crown for a premium professional quality time compression/expansion box. They did a brilliant execution of our basic pitch shift invention using clever filtering to mimic the mechanical rotating head machines sample splicing. All I can say is some very smart engineering that sounded better than our SOTA.
 
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