a question about faders

[hollywood_steve]

Just completed the mixing of 20 or so songs on my new API 7800/8200 mixer. Overall, I'd give the API mixer a solid "A" for performance and ease of use. My only minor complaint so far is that the main stereo output rotary fader is tiny and NOT very helpful when trying to create smooth fades at the end of a song. Fortunately, API has included a connector on the rear panel for the connection of an outboard linear fader for the stereo bus output. Out on location, I will get by without this option. But back at the studio, it will make mixing / editing easier.

When I investigated the available options from P&G, I realized that I had a decision to make; do I want to purchase and install a single stereo fader or a pair of mono faders for separate Left and Right controls? This is really something I haven't given much thought to prveviously; I've worked on many consoles with each type of configuration. And now that I need to make a decision, I honestly can't remember any good reasons in favor of one or the other. Obviously, a pair of mono faders gives you more flexibility if you need to vary the levels between L&R. But a stereo fader should track more closely on the 95% of your mixes that only need a matched attenuation of L&R. But as someone who sold his last console over one year ago, I just don't recall having a preference one way or the other.

Am I missing some better arguments in favor of one format or the other? Purchasing a single stereo fader would be significantly less expensive than a pair of mono faders, but we're only talking a pair of faders, not a console filled with 48 (or more...) faders, so I don't want to let the cost difference dominate the decision. Any other reasons to choose one over the other?

 

[NewYorkDave]

My own preference is for a single stereo fader, as long as the left-right tracking is good.

 

[soundguy]

If I was adding a fader for the express purpose of doing fadeouts, I owuld DEFINITELY want a single stereo fader. Its a matter of preference though.

dave

 

[NewYorkDave]

I did some engineering work for a public radio station in the Bronx some years ago. In some of their smaller studios, they had "project studio" type consoles instead of proper radio consoles. The main hassle for the on-air talent was that potting up a stereo input (e.g., a CD player) required moving two adjacent faders in one smooth motion. We came up with a kludge to make the DJs' lives a little easier. One of our guys made little yokes out of clear plexiglass. These were precisely notched to accept the fader shaft; you simply removed the knobs, dropped the yoke on to the faders, and plugged the knobs back in. It worked great.

The point of this story is that a similar simple ganging device would allow you to run two faders ganged or separately at will, simply by popping off the knobs and dropping in (or removing) the yoke. Food for thought...

 

[jrmintz]

Absolutely get a stereo fader. I had a console with two mono faders and it was a huge pain until I replaced them with one stereo fader.

 

[Vince@Speck]

[quote author="hollywood_steve"]Just completed the mixing of 20 or so songs on my new API 7800/8200 mixer. Overall, I'd give the API mixer a solid "A" for performance and ease of use. My only minor complaint so far is that the main stereo output rotary fader is tiny and NOT very helpful when trying to create smooth fades at the end of a song. Fortunately, API has included a connector on the rear panel for the connection of an outboard linear fader for the stereo bus output. Out on location, I will get by without this option. But back at the studio, it will make mixing / editing easier.

When I investigated the available options from P&G, I realized that I had a decision to make; do I want to purchase and install a single stereo fader or a pair of mono faders for separate Left and Right controls? This is really something I haven't given much thought to prveviously; I've worked on many consoles with each type of configuration. And now that I need to make a decision, I honestly can't remember any good reasons in favor of one or the other. Obviously, a pair of mono faders gives you more flexibility if you need to vary the levels between L&R. But a stereo fader should track more closely on the 95% of your mixes that only need a matched attenuation of L&R. But as someone who sold his last console over one year ago, I just don't recall having a preference one way or the other.

Am I missing some better arguments in favor of one format or the other? Purchasing a single stereo fader would be significantly less expensive than a pair of mono faders, but we're only talking a pair of faders, not a console filled with 48 (or more...) faders, so I don't want to let the cost difference dominate the decision. Any other reasons to choose one over the other?[/quote]

You might be surpised to learn that the tracking error on a really good stereo 100mm slider like the P&G is +/-2dB. I would guess that the tracking errors when fading two mono sliders could greater than +/- 5dB. I think that's unacceptable for pro recording.

I would go with a stereo slider.

Regards,

Vince Poulos
Speck Electronics
http://www.speck.com

 

[hollywood_steve]

Well, the votes are in and it was remarkably one-sided. Everyone recommended a single stereo fader, although we did get one suggestion explaining how to mechanically link two mono faders.

This brings up a question: For those of you who recommended a single stereo fader, does that mean that you never (or very rarely) had any situations where you needed to trim the L or R a little more or less than the other? I guess that if you notice a discrepancy between the L&R levels at the stereo bus output, you really should go back into the mix and fix it at the origin, not at the bus output.

And one last question that failed to get much of a response the last time I posted it. This stereo fader needs to be mounted in some type of small table top enclosure. Doesn't seem too dificult EXCEPT for the slotted plate for the fader lever to travel through, AND the graduated level markings on that plate. Fabricating something like this from raw stock seems like a nightmare; but there have to be thousands of existing plates destined for the junkyard in every city with more than a few studios. Think of all of the mid and high end console carcasses that now sit in back rooms and storage spaces; any valuable modules long since scavenged, but 32 or 48 nicely engraved fader plates are usually sitting there unwanted, and most were designed to accept P&G faders. Utilizing one of these existing plates as the top surface in the table top box seems like the easy way to go, but once again, I'd welcome any alternative solutions, particularly from anyone who has built themselves a table top fader box.

Thanks.

 

[soundguy]

[quote author="hollywood_steve"] For those of you who recommended a single stereo fader, does that mean that you never (or very rarely) had any situations where you needed to trim the L or R a little more or less than the other? I guess that if you notice a discrepancy between the L&R levels at the stereo bus output, you really should go back into the mix and fix it at the origin, not at the bus output.[/quote]

this comes up but if the problem is fixable at the buss without screwing up the balance of the mix, you've got major problems elsewhere. Doing a smooth fadeout with two faders is a pain in the ass.

As for the junk pile, any old plate you find is going to be spec'd for a particular fader, so you'll need to find a plate to match whatever fader you decide to get. Redco can punch the center channel in a piece of metal, they made some fader plates for me no too long ago. Much easier than trying to find a needle in the haystack unless you get lucky.

dave

 

[Kev]

HELLO to hollywood_steve



WELCOME
(should have said that months ago)


A PSW regular yes ?
what brings you over here ?

 

[hollywood_steve]

what brings you over here ?

Pretty simple..... I finally purchased an 8x2 line mixer for use both on location and back at my studio. Although the API 7800/8200 combo "won" against countless other models, in it's stock form it was still not exactly what I needed.

Having checked out every other possible model available for purchase, I knew that the API was as close as I was going to come to a single product that met my needs. So any mod's beyond the stock configuartion were either going to require a DIY project or something that I would contract for with a local tech.

In either case, I had some research to do, and this is the place to go for that kind of info.

 

[Kev]

[quote author="hollywood_steve"]... So any mod's beyond the stock configuartion were either going to require a DIY project or something that I would contract for with a local tech.[/quote]

I figured it had something to do with that ... :green:

we do love our DIY
:thumb:

I don't have a fader solution for you just at the moment.
Dual P&G comes to mind but expensive
Do you need a preset trim or a finger tip trim between left and right or do you need an operational variation ... like two independant faders.

Mostly at work I use remote VCA volume control and so all of the above is easy BUT I don't think the VCA is going to satisfy you. ... :roll: