Alec Baldwin

[pucho812]

I know enough people working film crews to have a good understanding what should have happened to keep the set safe.

wonder if the truth will ever come out

 

[JohnRoberts]

I expect a reaction from legislators to outlaw fireable weapons from any movie set. They will then use CGI to add muzzle flashes in post production.

It was a rare and unfortunate incident.

JR

 

[pucho812]

I expect a reaction from legislators to outlaw fireable weapons from any movie set. They will then use CGI to add muzzle flashes in post production.

It was a rare and unfortunate incident.

JR

True, I am sure something will come down the pipe. It’s also not unreasonable to have that as cgi 2021 with how much computer processing we have available these days.

 

[living sounds]

It's already being done with CGI, but that is much more expensive than simply filming a "real" gunshot.

 

[fazer]

Unfortunate accident. I can’t imagine being Baldwin with the thoughts of killing a set member. Tragic accident.

 

[cyrano]

Rare?

It seems it happened before. Twice in a row is hardly rare and shows a serious problem on the set. As usual with guns.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Rare?

It seems it happened before. Twice in a row is hardly rare and shows a serious problem on the set. As usual with guns.

In 1992 Brandon Lee was killed by a .44 slug. Also in 1993 a TV actor (Hexum) accidentally killed himself by shooting himself in the head with a blank (don't do that either). Vic Morrow and two child actors were killed in an accident on Twilight zone movie set in 1982.

There have been a few tens of deaths and hundreds of serious physical injuries related to movies set accidents over the decades.

I submit that shooting deaths are rare, and it appears legislators are already trying to write legislation to not let this crisis go to waste.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

What I dont get is how does a prop that should only fire blanks end up getting loaded with live rounds by accident as appears to be the case here . Is security around film sets that bad that someone could get in , get their hands on a weapon and swap out the rounds unoticed? Surely a simple procedure where everything is kept under lock and key , then double checked by a firearms expert before its discharged could have prevented this fatality . Are weapons routinely left lying around the place unattended on film sets , guns belong in a strong lock box when not in use with the ammo stored seperately , a good soldier never takes their eye off their weapon , not even for a second . Im sure military establishments have evolved these rules through 'lessons learned' , why should there be any less professionalism in the film industry . Maybe the whole concept of the depiction and glorification of gun violence on the silver screen needs re-evaluating . So called action movies are more like a product placement oppertunity for the weapons manufacturers .

 

[JohnRoberts]

I'm sure this will be well investigated by the hollywood press.... (hint it was low budget indy film and union crew supposedly walked out).

I was taught to treat every weapon as if it was loaded... I don't know that I would trust someone else to clear my weapon. Of course this is simple in the crystal clarity of perfect hindsight.

A most unfortunate incident.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Why do you need real guns on a movie set? It's an accident waiting to happen, as security is non-existent on a filmset.

My uncle used to be a starter for athletes. The gun he used was loud, looked like a real one, produced a flash, but couldn't be loaded with real bullets.

I understand this kind of gun is used on most filmsets outside of the US.

Also, when I wrote "happened before", I meant recently, on the same set.

 

[pucho812]

In the u.s. there is security on film sets. You can’t just come onto one. From the looks of things with all the recent news, some of the crew got a hold of the gun in the off hours and went shooting in the New Mexico landscape. They then didn’t follow all safety checks as required.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Why do you need real guns on a movie set? It's an accident waiting to happen, as security is non-existent on a filmset.

There are strict procedures for gun safety on a film set. That is one of the several corners that were reportedly cut on that production.

My uncle used to be a starter for athletes. The gun he used was loud, looked like a real one, produced a flash, but couldn't be loaded with real bullets.

On a film set the guns need to look realistic, of course they can be disabled making them impossible to fire.Then muzzle flash needs to be added during post production.

In 1984, actor Jon-Erik Hexum died after shooting himself in the head with a prop gun blank while pretending to play Russian roulette with a .44 Magnum. Blanks can still cause harm from debris in the gun barrel, or just the force of the muzzle flash. As I said before don't do that, in fact don't play with guns. (caveat, I played with cap guns as a yout, but at a fairly early age was taught proper gun respect firing the family .22 long rifle).

I understand this kind of gun is used on most filmsets outside of the US.

Starter pistols?

Also, when I wrote "happened before", I meant recently, on the same set.

There were numerous problems already leaked/shared about that film set, I can wait for the full post mortem and not speculate further with incomplete or biased information. Alec Baldwin has a history of speaking out against gun rights so his case will be watched closely. There will likely be civil charges ending up in court and deadly film accidents have even resulted in criminal charges before. Midnight rider director got one year of jail time for a deadly train accident during filming that should have been avoided. It is too early to know if this rises to criminal charges.

JR

 

[grid_stopper]

Yes, kind of pointless assigning blame until we know for sure what happened. I have been seeing a lot of conflicting information as to wether it was an actual slug that came out of the barrel, or a blank that dislodged some shrapnel of said blank being discharged. Either way, the AD on set has a huge fault in this, as he had exactly zero business handling that firearm, and even less telling baldwin that it was safe. I work on set in my day to day life, and can say from experience that there is no circumstances in which that would ever be ok

 

[pucho812]

One thing that has come up in references to criminal charges is you have to look at Alec Baldwin twice, once as the actor in the film and once as the producer. With all the info that has come out so far. It's very unlikely alec the actor will see any criminal charges. However Alec the producer on the film may see a negligent manslaughter criminal charge but that is speculation based on all that has been released so far by people who know well more then me on the subject. I am just passing it along.

 

[grid_stopper]

One thing that has come up in references to criminal charges is you have to look at Alec Baldwin twice, once as the actor in the film and once as the producer. With all the info that has come out so far.

absolutely. The fact that multiple members of the crew expressed concern in writing before all this went down, and production continued with scabs anyways is incredibly damning

 

[Ricardus]

In an industry where everything is fake, there is absolutely NO REASON to have anything approaching a REAL firearm on a movie set. It's mind mindbogglingly stupid.

We also need to address the language being used. Yes, I know, everything the actor touches or the camera can see on set is a "prop." But in my estimation, any weapon that can fire ANYTHING (bullets, slugs, wadding, hot gases) at lethal velocities is not, and should not be called a PROP gun. IT IS A WEAPON. I am sure the studios insist on calling it a PROP GUN in the hopes they can limit liability. Well screw them.

How many films would Brandon Lee have starred in by now? We'll never know, but it was certainly more than ONE.

Remember when Frances McDormand got her academy award for Three Billboards? She talked about actors putting diversity clauses in their contracts? It's time the powerful actors of the world included a "no live firearms" clause in their contracts. This crap would end in a hurry.

It's fine. That's why the gods invented computers.

 

[pucho812]

In an industry where everything is fake, there is absolutely NO REASON to have anything approaching a REAL firearm on a movie set. It's mind mindbogglingly stupid.

We also need to address the language being used. Yes, I know, everything the actor touches or the camera can see on set is a "prop." But in my estimation, any weapon that can fire ANYTHING (bullets, slugs, wadding, hot gases) at lethal velocities is not, and should not be called a PROP gun. IT IS A WEAPON. I am sure the studios insist on calling it a PROP GUN in the hopes they can limit liability. Well screw them.

How many films would Brandon Lee have starred in by now? We'll never know, but it was certainly more than ONE.

Remember when Frances McDormand got her academy award for Three Billboards? She talked about actors putting diversity clauses in their contracts? It's time the powerful actors of the world included a "no live firearms" clause in their contracts. This crap would end in a hurry.

It's fine. That's why the gods invented computers.

There are 2 basic kinds of Ammo used on set. one is for looks, the other for looks while firing. the first kind is real ammunition but it has been modified. The projectile is removed, the propellent and primer removed from the insides. They then replace the insides with BB's and put the projectile back on. This gives looks of real ammo. The BB's make noise so a person handling them can hear it and know it's a fake.
The second kind of Ammo is a blank. It has propellent and primer but does not have a regular projectile. In turn this allows for recoil, muzzle flash and everything associated with firing a gun but no projectile. Again by sight you can tell a blank from the other.

As is taught in any gun safety course, know your firearm. A person should be able to tell if a firearm is loaded by either sight, sound, and touch. This is because most who take gun safety classes are doing so for personal protection. In most times where one may need a firearm for that, you are in positions where you may not have the ability to do one of the three, such as lights are off in the house and an intruder is inside.

Practical VS CGI Effects, well there are many reasons to go one over the other, There are pros and cons to each. I think you will find in this case, Budget was a big contributor why they went with practical(real) effects.



It is being reported that crew took the firearms off set in their off hours and went shooting in the new Mexico landscape. I know I mentioned that earlier but it has been confirmed. It's also being reported that around 500 rounds of Live(real) Ammo was found on the set.
Seems to me at this point, we have guns which left the set in the off hours, crew leaving live Ammo around and a breakdown in following safety protocols which lead to the horrific event. Most in film and T.V. will tell you if protocols are followed the the letter, the chances of an event such as this is reduced to almost never happening. But that doesn't mean it is 100%. Much like with pilots and accidents, every incident while tragic is something to learn from.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I didn't know about dummy bullets, but it makes sense for use in scenes where an actor loads a weapon on camera... no sense using real ammo there of course.

This is all obvious after the fact, but that's why there are strict protocols already established and these incidents are rare (when protocols are followed).

Somebodies got some splainin to do.

JR

 

[pucho812]

I didn't know about dummy bullets, but it makes sense for use in scenes where an actor loads a weapon on camera... no sense using real ammo there of course.

This is all obvious after the fact, but that's why there are strict protocols already established and these incidents are rare (when protocols are followed).

Somebodies got some splainin to do.

JR

I learned of the dummy rounds with bb's in talking with a friend who works crew. and Yes somebody has some splainin to do.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Gun safety professionals say there is no such thing as gun shooting "accidents", only negligence or criminal behavior.

We are seeing differences in (leaked) testimony and police investigation. Police are not calling this an accident.

JR